2019 Pittsburgh Steelers

Bballer05

Active member
Both teams playing with a lot of injuries. Weird game. Not going to seesaw with wins and losses. A mediocre coach is what he is.
i'm replying to this knowing full well that no matter what Tomlin does or doesn't do, he will always be "average" in Cru's mind, for whatever reason.

however, you don't have the overall win % that he has and be an "average" coach.

and to be able to get this team to 4-4 and still "in the hunt" actually speaks more about how great of a coach he actually is, even though i know it just pains you to even admit that.

he is a way above average coach and that's really not debatable.

is he perfect? no.

is he WAY better than what's possibly out there right now? for sure.
 

Crusaders

Moderator
By the end of year they’ll have a bunch of wins against really bad teams. My entire point about Tomlin is that far too many people are duped by his record, and here you are falling for it.
 
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Crusaders

Moderator
how did Ben do reading defenses in his 3rd or 4th games? not very well, either.

Ben got the luxury of playing with a much better defense.
I’m not even talking about complex reads, I’m talking about things any pro should be able to read, like a LB lined up on a WR or being able to anticipate a route being open. He doesn’t show an ability to do these things.
 
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Bballer05

Active member
I’m not even talking about complex reads, I’m talking about things any pro should be able to read, like a LB lined up on a WR or being able to anticipate a route being open. He doesn’t show an ability to do these things.
you are correct. those are exactly the same things that Ben COULDN'T do in his first couple seasons, but he got away with it because he was able to extend plays and basically make plays playing backyard football. he's had like 4 games. to put any kind of "concern" on him after very little evidence is the equivalent of my 5 year old taking a pebble sized bite of the dinner we made and then proclaiming "i don't like this!"
 

Crusaders

Moderator
Ben couldn't do those things? How about not talking out of your ass because you've made Rudolph your boy?

Very little evidence? Are you serious? Rudolph is captain check down. At least 60% of his completions are to his HBs and TEs. He's not able to tell when anyone is going to be open. Ben could do that. Yes, he extended broken plays with his legs, but he wasn't running around like that for every snap. Nearly every snap we see Rudolph looking frantic trying to find someone open (and there usually is, he just couldn't anticipate it) before dumping the ball off to his safety route. Completely different.
 

Bballer05

Active member
Ben couldn't do those things? How about not talking out of your ass because you've made Rudolph your boy?
typical response.

Rudolph ain't "my boy". i have no idea if he's the future or not after Ben is gone. still too early to tell. and if you want to believe Ben could do those things in his first couple seasons, then that's fine. but he couldn't. he was just better at escaping the pocket, extending the play, and making something happen. had ZERO to do with his ability to read a defense, call an audible, make an adjustment at the line, etc.

maybe give Rudolph a little more time/experience to be able to do those instead of expecting him to be great at it in his first rodeo. he isn't yet. neither was Ben.
 

BR1986FB

Well-known member
Ben couldn't do those things? How about not talking out of your ass because you've made Rudolph your boy?

Very little evidence? Are you serious? Rudolph is captain check down. At least 60% of his completions are to his HBs and TEs. He's not able to tell when anyone is going to be open. Ben could do that. Yes, he extended broken plays with his legs, but he wasn't running around like that for every snap. Nearly every snap we see Rudolph looking frantic trying to find someone open (and there usually is, he just couldn't anticipate it) before dumping the ball off to his safety route. Completely different.
You're spot on with this. Rudolph isn't a long-term solution when Ben moves on. Fichtner isn't exactly designing plays (lack of confidence in him?) for Rudolph to let it rip and when I'm seeing 1st half stats like 11-13 for 89 yards, it saying something (check downs).
 

Crusaders

Moderator
typical response.

Rudolph ain't "my boy". i have no idea if he's the future or not after Ben is gone. still too early to tell. and if you want to believe Ben could do those things in his first couple seasons, then that's fine. but he couldn't. he was just better at escaping the pocket, extending the play, and making something happen. had ZERO to do with his ability to read a defense, call an audible, make an adjustment at the line, etc.

maybe give Rudolph a little more time/experience to be able to do those instead of expecting him to be great at it in his first rodeo. he isn't yet. neither was Ben.
Please. Ben was a game manager his first season, yes, but he wasn't running around every play. He made a lot of regular throws and hit his WRs. Most importantly, Ben looked like he knew what was going on. He wasn't constantly in a state of panic. Rudolph, on the other hand, looks completely lost out there. Mind, you're comparing a player who came in completely green (Ben) to a guy who sat behind a future HOF QB for year (Rudolph) and still looks lost.

I'm not being overly critical of Rudolph. It's just the way it is, and it is concerning that he can't do such basic things as target a WR if a LB is lined up on him. That's college level stuff that he's not showing he can do. Can he improve? Sure. No one can tell the future, but I'm not a fan of banking on the potential of players who aren't performing that well.

Again, he's not a rookie. What was he learning all of last year? I don't know. It doesn't seem like it was how to quarterback at a professional level.
 
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BR1986FB

Well-known member
Please. Ben was a game manager his first season, yes, but he wasn't running around every play. He made a lot of regular throws and hit his WRs. Molst importantly, Ben looked like he knew what was going on. He wasn't constantly in a state of panic. Rudolph, on the hand, looks completely lost out there.

I'm not being overly critical of Rudolph. It's just the way it is, and it is concerning that he can't do such basic things as target a WR if he a LB is lined up on him. That's college level stuff that he's not showing he can do. Can he improve? Sure. No one can tell the future, but he's also not a rookie. What was he learning all of last year? I don't know. It doesn't seem like it was learning how to quarterback at a professional level.
He had a strong running game & defense to fall back on but agree with the game manager comments. Pretty much what Rudolph is doing now. Although, I think Ben did have a few game winning drives his rookie season but I may be wrong on that.
 

Crusaders

Moderator
What concerns me even more than his apparent lack of ability to read a defense, is his piss-poor passing technique. His footwork is god-awful. It's why he can't throw anything accurately between 10-20 yards; he can't drive a ball between the LBs and DBs. So even if he does see someone open, he doesn't have the confidence to get it there. It shows in his lack of attempts. Add the inability to anticipate routes and exploit mismatches, it's no wonder his passing charts look like this:

 

BR1986FB

Well-known member
^^^ well, Rudolph was a 3rd round pick. That round produces a lot more Cody Kessler's than it does Russell Wilson's. He fell to that round for a reason.
 

Irwin20

Well-known member
Well we have a full season to find out don’t we? The Steelers should know in Jan 2020 what they have and then move forward from there.
 

Irwin20

Well-known member
If Ben comes back next season and plays close to his former self I expect he’ll play at least 2 years. That gives the Steelers ample time to replace if Rudolph is not the guy.
 

Crusaders

Moderator
this article sums it up perfectly. simply stated - he's not above being criticized, but he is FAR from average and needing to be fired.

The national media wet themselves over Tomlin and largely refuse to criticize him for PC reasons. If he were Mike McCarthy instead, all the criticisms would be out there in print on a weekly basis.
 

Crusaders

Moderator
If Ben comes back next season and plays close to his former self I expect he’ll play at least 2 years. That gives the Steelers ample time to replace if Rudolph is not the guy.
Ben’s body is breaking down. I have my doubts he’ll make it through a full season again. They should absolutely look for a QB in the 2021 draft.
 

Bballer05

Active member
What concerns me even more than his apparent lack of ability to read a defense, is his piss-poor passing technique. His footwork is god-awful. It's why he can't throw anything accurately between 10-20 yards; he can't drive a ball between the LBs and DBs. So even if he does see someone open, he doesn't have the confidence to get it there. It shows in his lack of attempts. Add the inability to anticipate routes and exploit mismatches, it's no wonder his passing charts look like this:

he drove a perfect ball into a window between 4 defenders, Juju dropped it and it got picked. that could have had a little to do with his hesitation to try it again.

not saying he can't and shouldn't, but i'm sure it played a role in some of his decisions after that.
 

Crusaders

Moderator
1. One pass doesn't alter the entire body of evidence.
2. He forces the ball to JuJu A LOT, and on that particular play, he wasn't open. He was surrounded by defenders. Rudolph did get the ball there and JuJu should have caught it, but it would have been a "nice play but don't ever do it again" sort of deal.
 

thavoice

Well-known member
What the steelers have failed to do, where the Colts succeeded, was to absolutely bomb when their HOF QB went down and that secured a top pick.

As fans were are sort of surprised, and happy which is sad to say, at being 4-4 at this point. We are overachieving at the expense of building for the future. It would have been so easy this year to just saw screw it, be ok with it because the franchise QB was injured, but nooooooo, we have t win games and screw up the future!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

but then again, with Miami, Cincy and Wash it would have been tough to suck that bad to get into the top 3
 

BR1986FB

Well-known member
What the steelers have failed to do, where the Colts succeeded, was to absolutely bomb when their HOF QB went down and that secured a top pick.
Hard to do this year when your 1st round pick is Minkah Fitzpatrick. And he has been a good pickup for your defense.
 
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Bballer05

Active member
1. One pass doesn't alter the entire body of evidence.
2. He forces the ball to JuJu A LOT, and on that particular play, he wasn't open. He was surrounded by defenders. Rudolph did get the ball there and JuJu should have caught it, but it would have been a "nice play but don't ever do it again" sort of deal.
he was open.

the ball hit him RIGHT in the hands.

what coach would ever tell their QB "please don't throw the ball perfectly to the hands of your WR where only he could catch it?"

really???

and he RARELY forces to Juju. Juju has 40 targets from Rudolph on 165 pass attempts. that's only 24%. considering when you drop back to pass, you usually only have 4 options to throw to, i'd say that's pretty even.
 

Crusaders

Moderator
If you think being surrounded by 4 defenders is open no wonder you hold the opinions you do.

Forcing the ball doesn’t necessarily mean over-targeting. It has more to do with throwing to him to him when he’s not really open. Rudolph will throw to JuJu a lot even if he’s not open.
 

Bballer05

Active member
If you think being surrounded by 4 defenders is open no wonder you hold the opinions you do.

Forcing the ball doesn’t necessarily mean over-targeting. It has more to do with throwing to him to him when he’s not really open. Rudolph will throw to JuJu a lot even if he’s not open.
i don't care if he had all 11 defenders "surrounding him". no one was making contact with him. so what if 3-4 defenders were "close to him"? he should have caught the ball. the throw was perfect. right in the hands. i'm not sure why you're even debating that one. every single person that knows football, including Juju, would tell you "it's a perfect throw. that's a ball that should be caught".

end of discussion on that one.
 

Crusaders

Moderator
Yes, end of discussion because you're obviously too dumb to comprehend what's been said. I'm not repeating myself to you. Learn to read
 

nupanther

Well-known member
The national media wet themselves over Tomlin and largely refuse to criticize him for PC reasons. If he were Mike McCarthy instead, all the criticisms would be out there in print on a weekly basis.
Did you read the article? They rightfully criticized Tomlin for his silly challenges and piss poor record out of the time zone and to bad teams. This was no circle jerk piece. They showed the good and the bad. And I just don't comprehend why you hand wave his regular season winning percentage. This is the NFL. Not Ohio state where 50% of your games you gave a 99% chance of winning and 25% of the remaining games you have a 75% chance of winning. You don't coach 13 years in THIS league without a losing record unless you know what you're doing.
 
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