2019-20 Mr Basketball Candidates

kingpin2010

Well-known member
I just learned that this Rasile kid you are speaking of is actually coached by his dad! That prob explains the records/numbers as I heard he was always able to toss up as many balls as he wanted and as a freshman had something like a shooting percentage of like 26%. That would never fly under the direction of another coach. After seeing a video, he does have a good shot but i have seen so many other kids that have more talent all around and are playing better competition. IMO this definitely looks like a dad living through his child. Best of luck to him at his D2 college.
That is unequivocally not true about the shooting percentage. His freshman year when he set the single season 3 point record he shot 46% from 3.
 

Smalls

Active member
I mentioned before that I think he is a real solid player.........BUT how many kids would match his numbers playing their schedule and being allowed to shoot 28 times (pretty much a shot a minute) and taking more shots than the rest of the team combined each and every game. Plus, 99.9% of players and coaches would adjust their game on an off shooting night to get to the rim and/or get others involved before missing 21 of 28 shots.


The lanky Vikings (14-1) have two post players standing 6-foot-7 and a pair of guards at 6-3 and 6-4. Their length paid dividends as they dominated the boards and forced Rasile into several difficult shots. The sharpshooting guard still finished with 28 points, but it came on 7-of-28 from the floor, and his teammates couldn’t find their touch either, finishing 8-of-23.

Plus that was against the only good team on their schedule.
 
I just learned that this Rasile kid you are speaking of is actually coached by his dad! That prob explains the records/numbers as I heard he was always able to toss up as many balls as he wanted and as a freshman had something like a shooting percentage of like 26%. That would never fly under the direction of another coach. After seeing a video, he does have a good shot but i have seen so many other kids that have more talent all around and are playing better competition. IMO this definitely looks like a dad living through his child. Best of luck to him at his D2 college.
I can't help but laugh at these kinds of statements. You basically demean the fact that he's going to a D2 college - it just shows that you're ignorant in the college that he chose altogether. There are kids every single day, in all sports that choose to be the big fish in a small pond over being the small fish in the big pond and thats exactly what Rasile did. Secondly, I don't care if John Wooden/Bobby Knight/Mike Krzyzewski are his coach - you act like the kid is scoring 25 a game - he's going to finish 2nd ALL TIME is scoring in the state. You obviously can't fathom the accomplishment that is. He passed some guy named LEBRON a couple weeks ago......but yeah, clearly he must be getting 40 points a game and over 2600 points for a career because his dad is his coach.....

Last thing - based on your assessment of him....I guess the opposing teams that they play against just don't guard him right? I mean after all, he's a 6ft tall white kid - how good could he really be?! On that note, if he was 6'3", he'd be going to a major school....but he can't control how tall he is....there, now you have something you can ACTUALLY blame on his dad! 😂
 
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I mentioned before that I think he is a real solid player.........BUT how many kids would match his numbers playing their schedule and being allowed to shoot 28 times (pretty much a shot a minute) and taking more shots than the rest of the team combined each and every game. Plus, 99.9% of players and coaches would adjust their game on an off shooting night to get to the rim and/or get others involved before missing 21 of 28 shots.


The lanky Vikings (14-1) have two post players standing 6-foot-7 and a pair of guards at 6-3 and 6-4. Their length paid dividends as they dominated the boards and forced Rasile into several difficult shots. The sharpshooting guard still finished with 28 points, but it came on 7-of-28 from the floor, and his teammates couldn’t find their touch either, finishing 8-of-23.

Plus that was against the only good team on their schedule.
Waterloo is a bigger school than McDonald and has 3 year starters (along with size) all over the court. McDonald hasn't beat that team in 2+ years....as for Rasile's numbers - his percentage is poor in this game - but he is their only shot at competing in games like that. It's no different than the Cavs the 1st time Lebron was there - his numbers looked just like that compared to the rest of the team. And as a coach, you always want the ball in your best players hands....you live with the losses on bad shooting nights just like you relish the wins when that player goes off...
 

Garfield

New member
Waterloo is a bigger school than McDonald and has 3 year starters (along with size) all over the court. McDonald hasn't beat that team in 2+ years....as for Rasile's numbers - his percentage is poor in this game - but he is their only shot at competing in games like that. It's no different than the Cavs the 1st time Lebron was there - his numbers looked just like that compared to the rest of the team. And as a coach, you always want the ball in your best players hands....you live with the losses on bad shooting nights just like you relish the wins when that player goes off...
Dad/coach/and all of your many screen names, I wasn’t on here to bash anybody, as I said he was a good shooter. I was merely stating things I have heard or read, concluding that other good shooters may have set records as well if they had the open opportunity, regardless of percentages, race, or height. But YOU making a comment like he is/was their only option to me is downgrading the rest of his team. Again, opportunity, opportunity, opportunity...
 

Yankeefan33

Well-known member
I can't help but laugh at these kinds of statements. You basically demean the fact that he's going to a D2 college - it just shows that you're ignorant in the college that he chose altogether. There are kids every single day, in all sports that choose to be the big fish in a small pond over being the small fish in the big pond and thats exactly what Rasile did. Secondly, I don't care if John Wooden/Bobby Knight/Mike Krzyzewski are his coach - you act like the kid is scoring 25 a game - he's going to finish 2nd ALL TIME is scoring in the state. You obviously can't fathom the accomplishment that is. He passed some guy named LEBRON a couple weeks ago......but yeah, clearly he must be getting 40 points a game and over 2600 points for a career because his dad is his coach.....

Last thing - based on your assessment of him....I guess the opposing teams that they play against just don't guard him right? I mean after all, he's a 6ft tall white kid - how good could he really be?! On that note, if he was 6'3", he'd be going to a major school....but he can't control how tall he is....there, now you have something you can ACTUALLY blame on his dad! 😂
D2 guys aren't as good as D1 guys. Sure, your player is fine. He can probably shoot, puts up nice numbers. But you can't tell me he's the best player in Ohio when he isn't going D1. Is he better than mid-major guys like Grant Huffman? Von Cameron Davis? Max Land? Not to mention the elite guys like McMillan and Branham. Be proud of your local D4 player who had a nice career. He isn't the best player in Ohio.

Luke Kennard played at a D3 school with no other D1 kids on his team- he was a McDonalds All-American and went to Duke. That's the kind of guy who should win POTY
 
D2 guys aren't as good as D1 guys. Sure, your player is fine. He can probably shoot, puts up nice numbers. But you can't tell me he's the best player in Ohio when he isn't going D1. Is he better than mid-major guys like Grant Huffman? Von Cameron Davis? Max Land? Not to mention the elite guys like McMillan and Branham. Be proud of your local D4 player who had a nice career. He isn't the best player in Ohio.

Luke Kennard played at a D3 school with no other D1 kids on his team- he was a McDonalds All-American and went to Duke. That's the kind of guy who should win POTY
Luke Kennard is 6'5".......if Rasile had that size he'd have his choice of the Kentuckys, Dukes, and MSUs of the world.....unfortunately its the old adage - you can't coach size. Think about it for a second - we've all seen a 6'8"+ kid that was signed to play D1 basketball somewhere that literally can't walk and chew gum at the same time. 6'8" might be too small for that analogy - but I know FOR SURE I've seen 6'10" guys that couldn't play a lick that got D1 scholarships....
 
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Dad/coach/and all of your many screen names, I wasn’t on here to bash anybody, as I said he was a good shooter. I was merely stating things I have heard or read, concluding that other good shooters may have set records as well if they had the open opportunity, regardless of percentages, race, or height. But YOU making a comment like he is/was their only option to me is downgrading the rest of his team. Again, opportunity, opportunity, opportunity...
As I've said previously on this thread, I don't know the kid, I don't live even close to the area, and I've NEVER SEEN HIM PLAY IN PERSON. And I honestly couldn't care less who is named Mr. Basketball - I just think its hilarious reading posts on here from people who act like literally ANYONE could go get 25 points in a game much less 40.....apparently all you need to do to get a good scoring night in high school basketball is have your dad be the coach of your small school team....who knew! 🤷‍♂️ 😂
 

coldshoulder

Active member
As I've said previously on this thread, I don't know the kid, I don't live even close to the area, and I've NEVER SEEN HIM PLAY IN PERSON. And I honestly couldn't care less who is named Mr. Basketball - I just think its hilarious reading posts on here from people who act like literally ANYONE could go get 25 points in a game much less 40.....apparently all you need to do to get a good scoring night in high school basketball is have your dad be the coach of your small school team....who knew! 🤷‍♂️ 😂
Agree wholeheartedly.

I've seen Zach Rasile play about 3-4 times each season, and I've been impressed with his growth as a player, progressing from just a shooter as a freshman, to a solid all-around performer now as a senior. More importantly, I can never recall him showboating, gloating, or losing his temper, and he's certainly had many opportunities to do so. The fact that his head coach/father is somewhat of a showboat himself makes Zach's demeanor even more impressive. Intense like his father, yes....Over-the-top-look-at-me-crazy like his dad, no. And Zach has endured many a taunt from opposing student fans as he becomes an easy villain to target--usually with the repetitive chant of "Daddy's Boy.."

That he's worked so hard in-season and out to improve/expand his game, that he's led McDonald to outstanding records each season (although last year was a bit of a downer--maybe 14-10 I'm guessing?), that he's shown a level of maturity that is exemplary, and that he's done all this while still racking up consistently big scoring numbers, has to at least put him in the conversation for Mr. Basketball.

He's also smart, in the sense he knows he'd struggle just to ride the bench at a Division I college. So he's chosen a Division II powerhouse where he will hopefully have an opportunity to play right away and become a starter...we'll see soon enough over the next 4 years. I wish him well.

Re-posting two different articles from this season which gives good insight into his character, and how he is as a teammate. Take the time to read them, and you'll come away impressed:


 
I've seen more than a dozen players in the greater Cleveland area who are D1 primarily based on their size and potential. Many of them also underwhelmed in a lot of high school games and often played with low effort. They would indeed have some amazing highlight plays, but wouldn't lead their teams to nearly as many wins as they should have. A D2 college recruit can indeed be a better "high school" player and be a better candidate for Mr. Basketball based on their performance in high school games. They just don't have the size, speed, pedigree of a D1 player. I've seen D2 and D3 kids play with all out effort every minute of every game and beat teams with a D1s on their roster. This type of player will get my vote for Mr. Basketball over D1 guys playing for themselves and not giving great effort in games. With that said, in most years a D1 will win Mr. Basketball because you will have a few "old school" D1's that do play hard always and win and simply may be more talented than the small city/school D2 kid.
 
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coldshoulder

Active member
Look, I'm not necessarily pushing for McDonald's Zach Rasile to win Mr. Basketball, and he probably won't. But I've posted some stats and info here to enlighten others across the state about Zach and what all the fuss is about. But this John Vargo guy, sportswriter for the Warren Tribune/Youngstown Vindicator (now operating together), has put together yet one more feature story about Zach, his third in a six-week span.

Providing that here, for info and background, without further comment:

 
Only thing I can say for certain - is there is no LeBron in this class. Period. The only name I've ever even heard of on this thread is the Rasile kid from McDonald. And the only reason I've heard of him is because of the career scoring marks he has. Not one guy standing out above the rest at this point....If Livingston would have stayed at Buchtel, would probably be hearing about him....or if Sencire Harris would have stayed at Hoover, would probably be hearing about him too.....
 

Smalls

Active member
Only thing I can say for certain - is there is no LeBron in this class. Period. The only name I've ever even heard of on this thread is the Rasile kid from McDonald. And the only reason I've heard of him is because of the career scoring marks he has. Not one guy standing out above the rest at this point....If Livingston would have stayed at Buchtel, would probably be hearing about him....or if Sencire Harris would have stayed at Hoover, would probably be hearing about him too.....
Zeb Jackson from Maumee Valley Country Day would be in the mix too. Michigan signee, top 100 recruit - now playing for the #1 prep team in the country. Although his schedule would hurt his cause.
 
Max Strus transferred from Lewis college to Depaul and was All Big East.

Zach Hankins transferred from Ferris State to Xavier where he averaged 11 points and 5 rebounds.

Duncan Robinson transferred from Williams College to Michigan and now starts for the Miami Heat.

Players go to different schools for different reasons.
 

Kballer

Well-known member
I agree that the Ideal standard for Mr. Basketball is a player that would be in the conversation for McDonald’s all American and is being sought out by D1 coaches, but if there isn’t an obvious candidate who has these credentials it really opens up the conversation. That’s said, individual stats are only one barometer and all stats are most definitely not created equal. I’m all for a small school kid getting it, but he should at least be able to hold his own in a pick up game with the top guys in the state in all divisions. Luke Kennard is a pretty great measuring stick and yes, in basketball- size matters.

Last year Duece McBride was IMHO the best player in the state- but he didn’t have the gaudy stats because he played on a complete team and was an unselfish player who wanted wins more than individual accolades.
 
Look, I'm not necessarily pushing for McDonald's Zach Rasile to win Mr. Basketball, and he probably won't. But I've posted some stats and info here to enlighten others across the state about Zach and what all the fuss is about. But this John Vargo guy, sportswriter for the Warren Tribune/Youngstown Vindicator (now operating together), has put together yet one more feature story about Zach, his third in a six-week span.

Providing that here, for info and background, without further comment:

If this kid ever played against and was guarded by any of the following D1 players he would have a hard time sniffing 8 points . . . it's just a different level:

Grant Huffman or Foster - St. Ed's
Josiah Fulcher - Lima Sr.
Matt Alloco - Bradley
Any guard from Princeton
Nate Johnson - East
McCracken - Moeller
 
If this kid ever played against and was guarded by any of the following D1 players he would have a hard time sniffing 8 points . . . it's just a different level:

Grant Huffman or Foster - St. Ed's
Josiah Fulcher - Lima Sr.
Matt Alloco - Bradley
Any guard from Princeton
Nate Johnson - East
McCracken - Moeller
You are just wrong. There are no facts to back up your statement. I mean, based on your logic, Steph Curry must be having one heck of a time in the NBA then right?!

This kid hits 40 footers on a NIGHTLY basis. He has unlimited range. You think because he's undersized and not as athletic as these D1 players you mentioned, that the kid can't play....and it's comical....

Here's a novel concept, instead of comparing him to a bunch of D1 players that most people have never heard of, lets compare him to Diebler, Kennard, Lebron, Jay Burson, and some of the other top 10 all time scoring leaders....because it makes just as much sense to compare him to them as it does to some kid playing at SVSM, Lima, Lorain, Moeller, or any other big program you can think of....

I doubt Rasile ends up being Mr. Basketball - but people, for the love of god, stop acting like the kid wouldn't know how to tie his shoes against a D1 team.....40/game and 2700 points.....basketball is basketball - and when you score like that, you MUST be able to play at least a little bit, no?
 

Smalls

Active member
You are just wrong. There are no facts to back up your statement. I mean, based on your logic, Steph Curry must be having one heck of a time in the NBA then right?!

This kid hits 40 footers on a NIGHTLY basis. He has unlimited range. You think because he's undersized and not as athletic as these D1 players you mentioned, that the kid can't play....and it's comical....

Here's a novel concept, instead of comparing him to a bunch of D1 players that most people have never heard of, lets compare him to Diebler, Kennard, Lebron, Jay Burson, and some of the other top 10 all time scoring leaders....because it makes just as much sense to compare him to them as it does to some kid playing at SVSM, Lima, Lorain, Moeller, or any other big program you can think of....

I doubt Rasile ends up being Mr. Basketball - but people, for the love of god, stop acting like the kid wouldn't know how to tie his shoes against a D1 team.....40/game and 2700 points.....basketball is basketball - and when you score like that, you MUST be able to play at least a little bit, no?
Take a look at the video I posted of the Erie Mason kid earlier in the thread and let me know how you think he compares. I see a lot of similarities. He also scores 37 ppg this year, but was able to lead his team to the Michigan D3 State Final 4.

My point in posting it is when Joey Leidel (University of Detroit signee with similar size, ability and skill set to Rasile) was guarded by Joey Holifield D1 Oakland commit he was held to 4 and 7 points and couldn't even get open to get a shot off. Holifiled also held Zeb Jackson Michigan Commit, Brandon Haraway Mr. Basketball Finalist, mutiple other D1 and D2 players to under double figures.

If anyone in Ohio (not just Rasile) got that type of attention on a nightly basis they too would not be able to get 1/4 of the open looks that they would get against really limited athletes. It is not like McDonald is even playing good D3/D4 teams they play many of the worst teams in the entire state.

Again, he may win Mr. Basketball and is a great high school player. Just not what I expect to see when I think Mr. Basketball. I am expecting to see a combination of great talent and superior athleticism. The talent is there, but the quickness and explosiveness is not. He is better that 99% of kids in the state just not at a typical Mr. Basketball level where we are talking about the best of the best.
 
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Take a look at the video I posted of the Erie Mason kid earlier in the thread and let me know how you think he compares. I see a lot of similarities. He also scores 37 ppg.

My point in posting it is when Joey Leidel (University of Detroit signee with similar skill set to Rasile) was guarded by Joey Holifield D1 Oakland commit he was held to 4 and 7 points and couldn't even get open to get a shot off. Holifiled also held Zeb Jackson Michigan Commit, Brandon Haraway Mr. Basketball Finalist, mutiple other D1 and D2 players to under double figures.
It would seem, based on what you said here, that maybe Joey Holifield is just a superior defender then? Being that he is holding major D1 players to single digits, I'd say that his ability to play defense is an unfair comparison altogether....it would seem based on your description of him that it doesn't really matter who is in front of him - he's going to get the best of them defensively.....

and I get it, you picture Lebron James when you think Ohio Mr. Basketball.......but guys like Jon Diebler win it too.....Rasile is basically Jon Diebler minus 6 inches. Same argument I was making earlier - it is viewed negatively because Rasile is only 6 ft - I happen to view it as a positive like "wow, this kid is out here filling it up at ONLY 6ft tall" Doesn't his disadvantageous height not make scoring MORE difficult?! One would think so!
 

Smalls

Active member
It would seem, based on what you said here, that maybe Joey Holifield is just a superior defender then? Being that he is holding major D1 players to single digits, I'd say that his ability to play defense is an unfair comparison altogether....it would seem based on your description of him that it doesn't really matter who is in front of him - he's going to get the best of them defensively.....

and I get it, you picture Lebron James when you think Ohio Mr. Basketball.......but guys like Jon Diebler win it too.....Rasile is basically Jon Diebler minus 6 inches. Same argument I was making earlier - it is viewed negatively because Rasile is only 6 ft - I happen to view it as a positive like "wow, this kid is out here filling it up at ONLY 6ft tall" Doesn't his disadvantageous height not make scoring MORE difficult?! One would think so!
Fair to say Holifiled is a superior defender, but most good teams have multiple defenders and athletes who are closer in ability to Holifield than they are to the guys sitting in 2-3 zones vs a dead nuts shooter (compliment) and Mr. Basketball candidate. Most if not all good teams I watch will pick up the other team's top perimeter player 1 on 1 full court or as soon as he crosses half court. In a vast majority of the film I watched the teams sit in a 2-3 zone, in several highlights they don't even extend beyond the 3 point line and don't run a 2nd guy at him. If there is a double team it happens by accident becasue he is spliting a seam. They are not running the double team at him to get the ball out of his hands. Heck I see guys with hands on hips looking in the stands during out of bounds plays. There is very little focus and low intensity when compared to most games I am used to watching.

If they can't run a box and one because of limited athleticism or helping man to man at the very least run a 1-2-2 or 3-2 and shade to his side. The vast majority of the highlights show kids with zero ability to defend and coaches with no concept of how to at least slow the other team's best player down. Why would they have 3 guys defending on the baseline when the kid scores 38+ ppg, plays beyond the 3 point line and takes over 1/2 the teams shots? Those teams also had zero ability to alter shots at the rim.

Overall that is just not a realistic level of play (much lower) than for a vast majority of guys who have ever been even considered in the history of the award. Again great player and in all accounts that I have read a good kid, but the argument for him is based on stats that are vastly inflated by who he plays for and against. On a good team playing against good players his number would be cut in half. Still outstanding, but not Mr. Basketball great.

From physical standpoint I would not describe him as overly quick or explosive.

Congratulations to him on an all time statistically great high school career in the history of Ohio. I am in no way saying it is easy or he didn't work hard for all of the accolades.
 

eastisbest

Well-known member
Again, he may win Mr. Basketball and is a great high school player. Just not what I expect to see when I think Mr. Basketball. I am expecting to see a combination of great talent and superior athleticism. The talent is there, but the quickness and explosiveness is not. He is better that 99% of kids in the state just not at a typical Mr. Basketball level where we are talking about the best of the best.
at the other extreme, since you're talking need to see extremes, how many extremely talented and athletically superior kids have you seen that just cannot play basketball? Simple do not understand the game, the concept of team,...

You've seen plenty. You've seen more of them than not them, right?

A kid doesn't in my opinion have to win long jump contests to be Mr. Basketball. Brains matter. He has to understand the game, regardless the level of the competition he's forced to. If Division and competition level is the criteria, just hand the award to the Spire or some similar program coach and say "pick-one."

And I know you've seen just as well as I have, that kid who looked slow against one set of competition, show a different appearance against another.

A kid with those scoring numbers? He's in the game for the award, no brainer.
 

Ohiohshoops3

New member
This thread is a bunch of people who are classifying a kid base off “their observations” or “their opinions when they have not seen the majority of not all of these kids play. The fact is we have kids across the state with immense talent, it doesn’t matter the division. Zach Rasile is a player, it doesn’t matter the competition, the kid is one of the best pure shooters I have seen in my life. Grant Hoffman is a stud, kid can do everything, Luke Frazier from mentor lake is an absolute beat, John hugley. I’m missing kids in other parts of the state but the reality is all these kids are special players and that should be the focus. School size doesn’t matter, a player is a player.
 
I just learned that this Rasile kid you are speaking of is actually coached by his dad! That prob explains the records/numbers as I heard he was always able to toss up as many balls as he wanted and as a freshman had something like a shooting percentage of like 26%. That would never fly under the direction of another coach. After seeing a video, he does have a good shot but i have seen so many other kids that have more talent all around and are playing better competition. IMO this definitely looks like a dad living through his child. Best of luck to him at his D2 college.
You are mistaken about a few things. His shooting percentage was MUCH better than 26%. I don’t know where you came up with that number. The team he was on made it to the Regional semi-finals and lost a close game to a much bigger Warren JFK team. Rasile was surrounded by a number of very good players that year.
 
I mentioned before that I think he is a real solid player.........BUT how many kids would match his numbers playing their schedule and being allowed to shoot 28 times (pretty much a shot a minute) and taking more shots than the rest of the team combined each and every game. Plus, 99.9% of players and coaches would adjust their game on an off shooting night to get to the rim and/or get others involved before missing 21 of 28 shots.


The lanky Vikings (14-1) have two post players standing 6-foot-7 and a pair of guards at 6-3 and 6-4. Their length paid dividends as they dominated the boards and forced Rasile into several difficult shots. The sharpshooting guard still finished with 28 points, but it came on 7-of-28 from the floor, and his teammates couldn’t find their touch either, finishing 8-of-23.

Plus that was against the only good team on their schedule.
Springfield beat Waterloo and McDonald has a win over Springfield so I guess that defeats your argument that Waterloo is the only good team on McDonald’s schedule. They also beat the #1 seed out the Orwell District this year, Bristol. Plus, they beat, I believe, 4 D2 schools this year.
 

catscatscats

Well-known member
This reminds me of 2002. The d4 player of the year was Matt Witt from Bethel who had very similar numbers to the McDonald kid. He was also going to a not so powerful Onio Valley D1 university in Kentucky EKU.

They ended up giving the award of Mr Basketball to a kid from a private school who didn't even go to college but played a much more difficult schedule and had outstanding stats as well.
Wonder happened to 02 mr basketball anyone heard from him lately 😏😏😏
 

catscatscats

Well-known member
D2 guys aren't as good as D1 guys. Sure, your player is fine. He can probably shoot, puts up nice numbers. But you can't tell me he's the best player in Ohio when he isn't going D1. Is he better than mid-major guys like Grant Huffman? Von Cameron Davis? Max Land? Not to mention the elite guys like McMillan and Branham. Be proud of your local D4 player who had a nice career. He isn't the best player in Ohio.

Luke Kennard played at a D3 school with no other D1 kids on his team- he was a McDonalds All-American and went to Duke. That's the kind of guy who should win POTY
I agree but Franklin was d2 and now d1
 
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