2017-18 discussion

Taco MacArthur

Active member
How many FFs has he been to since ‘00? At least 4. That’s what matters.
Since 2000 Kansas has been to 5 Final Fours, 3 of which have come since Bill Self took over in 2003-2004. So he has one less Final Four Appearance than Izzo. They also have 4 National Championship appearances since 2000, 2 of which came under Bill Self. Since 2000, Izzo has lost in the round of 64 7 times (someone double check this) while Self has lost in the round of 64 only 3 times.
 

WestSideBomber

New member
"Izzo is a far better coach than Self" is a weird claim to make coming off a tournament where Self went to the Final 4 and Izzo lost to literally the last at-large bid.
 

WestSideBomber

New member
Since 2000 Kansas has been to 5 Final Fours, 3 of which have come since Bill Self took over in 2003-2004. So he has one less Final Four Appearance than Izzo. They also have 4 National Championship appearances since 2000, 2 of which came under Bill Self. Since 2000, Izzo has lost in the round of 64 7 times (someone double check this) while Self has lost in the round of 64 only 3 times.
It's "only" 5 for Izzo. 2002, 2004, 2006, 2011, and 2016.

And for Self it's actually only twice. 2005 and 2006.
 

Descartes

New member
"Izzo is a far better coach than Self" is a weird claim to make coming off a tournament where Self went to the Final 4 and Izzo lost to literally the last at-large bid.
Which team usually has more talent? Izzo having as many titles and 1 more FF than Self is impressive.
 

Descartes

New member
"Izzo is a far better coach than Self" is a weird claim to make coming off a tournament where Self went to the Final 4 and Izzo lost to literally the last at-large bid.
And in 2010 Izzo went to a FF and Kansas lost to N Iowa as the overall 1 seed. It’s not about viewing 1 Tournament in isolation.
 

Southwest Guy

Active member
Yeah, and years he’s gone to the FF with Zero NBA talent. This yr he underperformed, it just happens to Self more often.
Just need to clarify. Are you on record supporting Izzo now to fit a narrative ? My memory is fading but didn't you spend a lot of time a few years ago bashing the career of Izzo ? It was before the Mark Few and Bill Self recent bashings.
 

Descartes

New member
Just need to clarify. Are you on record supporting Izzo now to fit a narrative ? My memory is fading but didn't you spend a lot of time a few years ago bashing the career of Izzo ? It was before the Mark Few and Bill Self recent bashings.
No, I never bashed Izzo.
 

Descartes

New member
I’m not saying a coach should be in the FF every yr, even the great coaches have had embarrassing Tourney moments. However, coaches need to be judged more heavily on how they perform in the Tourney. IMO, Bielien is a top tier coach despite not having won a title.
 

Neopolitan

Cooling Off
No, I never bashed Izzo.
Oh?

When you get to 7 FFs and win only one, that's underperforming. All they are is a slightly more successful version of the Buffalo Bills. Izzo deserves to catch flak for not being able to win the big one.
Look at his FF & title game losses, they got obliterated in the majority of those games. The guy is a choke artist.
7 FFs and only 1 title? If that was UK, UNC, UCLA, etc the media would be all over him as a choke artist, but he gets a pass bc he's coaching at a "non-premier" program.
only you would stand up for a likable, yet underperforming coach.
Even when they do get to the FF, they seem to get their kicked. I'd rather have a program like Uconn
1/7 in the FF, including mostly blowouts in those losses, that's underperforming. Not to mention some of his better teams have gotten knocked out early... great coaches win on the big stage.
Izzo's teams frequently get curbed stomped in these big situations. Great coaches win titles.
 

eastside_purple

Well-known member
This exchange about Izzo made me laugh and illustrates how pboy lets emotion and literally one game trump logic.

I get that, 7 FFs and only 1 title? If that was UK, UNC, UCLA, etc the media would be all over him as a choke artist, but he gets a pass bc he's coaching at a "non-premier" program.
Only people like you would say that.

And only you would stand up for a likable, yet underperforming coach.
 

Descartes

New member
This exchange about Izzo made me laugh and illustrates how pboy lets emotion and literally one game trump logic.
I was totally wrong there. My attitude on Izzo changed. It’s possible/likely I’m wrong about Tony Bennet. I could see him winning a Title, but until then, his lack of tourney success should be scrutinized.

And if somehow Mick gets UC to a FF, I’ll be wrong again. However, I’m not sure how any UC fan can think Mick is capable of such a thing. UC fans need to decide if they want to play it safe and win a lot of Reg Season games with Mick and not do well in the Tourney or take a risk which might set the program back, but it also might propel them forward.
 

eastside_purple

Well-known member
I was totally wrong there. My attitude on Izzo changed. It’s possible/likely I’m wrong about Tony Bennet. I could see him winning a Title, but until then, his lack of tourney success should be scrutinized.

And if somehow Mick gets UC to a FF, I’ll be wrong again. However, I’m not sure how any UC fan can think Mick is capable of such a thing. UC fans need to decide if they want to play it safe and win a lot of Reg Season games with Mick and not do well in the Tourney or take a risk which might set the program back, but it also might propel them forward.
They don’t have the resources or conference positioning to be propelled forward. You have an axe to grind with Mick, which is fine, but calling for him to lose his job is moronic at best.
 

Descartes

New member
They don’t have the resources or conference positioning to be propelled forward. You have an axe to grind with Mick, which is fine, but calling for him to lose his job is moronic at best.
How is Witchita St able to be successful? Is their budget bigger than UC’s? Perhaps it is bc they don’t have football. And wasn’t Uconn in the conference when they won their last Title? I’d agree, he doesn’t have the resources to be highly competitive every year, but his Tourney track record should be far better.

I could even look past all of his Tourney failure if he was humble, but he’s not. Only real scumbags would try to use a friend’s illness to deflect questions in such a manner. If he had just be honest and said “I f***ed up, I’m sorry”, then I wouldn’t have such an issue. However, you add that to the other issues this year and you’ve got an unjustified egomaniac running your team.
 

adselder09

Well-known member
How is Witchita St able to be successful? Is their budget bigger than UC’s? Perhaps it is bc they don’t have football. And wasn’t Uconn in the conference when they won their last Title? I’d agree, he doesn’t have the resources to be highly competitive every year, but his Tourney track record should be far better.
Greg Marshall has been to one FF, has he made a Regional Final other than that? UConn's last title came on the heels of the ACC pillaging the Big East, if I recall it was the first season as the American - so still had Big East players/recruits. You've seen what's happened to UConn since. You can argue all you want that Mick has had his struggles in the Tournament - and he has everyone can see that - but it doesn't make him a bad coach. Certainly doesn't deserve to be fire over losing one game - no matter how bad the loss was.
 

Descartes

New member
Greg Marshall has been to one FF, has he made a Regional Final other than that? UConn's last title came on the heels of the ACC pillaging the Big East, if I recall it was the first season as the American - so still had Big East players/recruits. You've seen what's happened to UConn since. You can argue all you want that Mick has had his struggles in the Tournament - and he has everyone can see that - but it doesn't make him a bad coach. Certainly doesn't deserve to be fire over losing one game - no matter how bad the loss was.
One FF and Elite 8 at Witchita St is damn good.
 
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