2 Quarter JV Girls Basketball Games Continue In 2019-20

Yappi

Go Buckeyes
This is disappointing for all involved. The team with low participation is losing out on valuable JV time, especially for the younger girls. The schools that have solid participation are also affected because they lose two quarters of game time, maybe even a few times a year.

Not sure what the solution is but this should not be a problem. I was disappointed when Freshmen basketball started to go away. Now we are losing the JV teams.
 

MCGal

Well-known member
I don't see why this is a problem... it's either this or no JV games at all and extra kids riding the pine on varsity all year.
 

Yappi

Go Buckeyes
I don't see why this is a problem... it's either this or no JV games at all and extra kids riding the pine on varsity all year.
It's not a problem under the current crisis in girls basketball. What needs to change is that participation rates need to increase. There should be a full Freshmen team, a JV team, and a Varsity team. Girls should be playing because they love the game even if they don't have the talent to contribute at the Varsity level. That goes for every sport a school offers.

One way to look at it is if I go to the local rec center, I will see alot of boys of HS age playing in a pickup game that are not HS basketball players. I do not ever remember seeing a girl playing a pickup game just for the fun of it that wasn't a HS basketball player.
 

MCGal

Well-known member
That's a pipe dream Yappi but I agree it'd be nice to see participation increase. As for pick-up games, you just aren't in the right gym I guess.... and while gender roles are changing over time, let's be honest, the 'play sports for fun' crowd is still primarily male.
 

D4fan

Well-known member
On a serious note, do the officials get the same paycheck for a half game as they get for a full game?

I would hope so as travel, laundry etc are all virtually the same as a full game.
 

Blue Jay Fan

Well-known member
If your only playing half the minutes you should only need to practice half as much. Correct?
If you only have enough kids to play 2 quarters JV then you're practicing with varsity so they practice just as long and hard as anyone else.

BTW: there is a boys team in our conference that has no JV team this year.

I would expect officials get full pay.
 

D4fan

Well-known member
If you only have enough kids to play 2 quarters JV then you're practicing with varsity so they practice just as long and hard as anyone else.

BTW: there is a boys team in our conference that has no JV team this year.

I would expect officials get full pay.
Ah , that explains a lot. I knew a JV team from our conference was playing MAC schools when one of our conference schools who has varsity only was on the schedule. Guess if you get crossover games jv teams get their 22 games as well.
 

Mr. Slippery

Well-known member
On a serious note, do the officials get the same paycheck for a half game as they get for a full game?

I would hope so as travel, laundry etc are all virtually the same as a full game.
At the time that the officials contract to work the game, they are unlikely to know that it's only going to be a 2-quarter game (unless they're a last-minute replacement). They're signing on to work 4 quarters, so I don't see any reason to think they're being paid for less. On the flip side, if the games goes to overtime, they're not getting paid extra either.
 

BIG ED

Well-known member
It doesn’t seem to be affecting a lot of smaller schools, at least locally and in Wayne County. My son is a head JV girls coach at a D-4 school and he has 11 girls on his team. Every school in their league has a JV team. Now because of the size of these schools their JV teams are made up of mostly freshman and sophomores. They only have a very limited freshman schedule, like 4 games.
I’ve noticed the bigger schools still have separate freshman teams, maybe they shouldn’t and play those girls on JV If there is a numbers problem. Maybe some do, that I’m not sure of.
 

Mr. Slippery

Well-known member
I posted this in one of the other threads on Sunday, but it's just as relevant to this thread:

https://www.cantonrep.com/sports/20200202/junior-varsity-blues-girls-basketball-participation-trending-downward

Last week, my school played a team that had 6 JV girls dressed and 8 varsity girls of which 3 were also on the JV team, so that's a grand total of 11 players. Somehow, they managed to play 4 quarters of JV and varsity and won both games. The team had just lost 1 of their varsity starters to a serious knee injury.
 
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Red14

Active member
It's a small school problem as well, here in NW Ohio, there are routinely 2 quarter JV games. LIke it or not, this is a gender issue as much as anything. There are parents who'll be all over a boy who quits a sport and not say a word to a girl who does the same thing. Actually, some parents are happy if their kid doesn't play a sport. There are also other reasons why...

1. club volleyball/ indoor track - for some reason these came into being about 15 years ago and it's full blown now. Obviously the intent was to have those kids who DIDN'T play basketball to play during their off season. The by product is some who played both chose the other sport over basketball
2. difficulty. Basketball is a much tougher sport to play. You have to run, you have to "touch" the other team. You get knocked down. Many girls simply don't like those aspects of the game.
3. length of season. I don't buy this one as much because kids will play volleyball for 9 months a year. I do think girls, who've come off a 3 month volleyball season, are not that interested in going into a 4 month basketball season. Spring sports? They are really dying.

One solution I have is to eliminate the "quarters" rule. This wasn't as much of an issue when you didn't have this rule. Leaders decided coaches were not capable of managing their players time so they instituted this quarters rule. That essentially paved the way to 2 quarter JV games, or no JV games in some instances.
Another solution is to offer some kind of PE credit to athletes who participate in a school sponsored sport. Call in bribery, but if you can get another 2 kids out per grade just because a grade is on the line, then so be it. That's another 8 kids and boom, you've got plenty.
 

Stark Born & Bred

Active member
I posted this in one of the other threads on Sunday, but it's just as relevant to this thread:

https://www.cantonrep.com/sports/20200202/junior-varsity-blues-girls-basketball-participation-trending-downward

Last week, my school played a team that had 6 JVs girls dressed and 8 varsity girls of which 3 were also on the JV team, so that's a grand total of 11 players. Somehow, they managed to play 4 quarters of JV and varsity and won both games. The team had just lost 1 of their varsity starters to a serious knee injury.
I had no idea that freshmen girls basketball was basically dead in Stark County. I find it hard to believe that not one FL school, including perennial power Hoover and huge enrollment Jackson and McKinley and Glen Oak (all pretty good programs in the recent past), could field a freshmen team.
 

D4fan

Well-known member
It's a small school problem as well, here in NW Ohio, there are routinely 2 quarter JV games. LIke it or not, this is a gender issue as much as anything. There are parents who'll be all over a boy who quits a sport and not say a word to a girl who does the same thing. Actually, some parents are happy if their kid doesn't play a sport. There are also other reasons why...

1. club volleyball/ indoor track - for some reason these came into being about 15 years ago and it's full blown now. Obviously the intent was to have those kids who DIDN'T play basketball to play during their off season. The by product is some who played both chose the other sport over basketball
2. difficulty. Basketball is a much tougher sport to play. You have to run, you have to "touch" the other team. You get knocked down. Many girls simply don't like those aspects of the game.
3. length of season. I don't buy this one as much because kids will play volleyball for 9 months a year. I do think girls, who've come off a 3 month volleyball season, are not that interested in going into a 4 month basketball season. Spring sports? They are really dying.

One solution I have is to eliminate the "quarters" rule. This wasn't as much of an issue when you didn't have this rule. Leaders decided coaches were not capable of managing their players time so they instituted this quarters rule. That essentially paved the way to 2 quarter JV games, or no JV games in some instances.
Another solution is to offer some kind of PE credit to athletes who participate in a school sponsored sport. Call in bribery, but if you can get another 2 kids out per grade just because a grade is on the line, then so be it. That's another 8 kids and boom, you've got plenty.
Back when I played you had to have one credit of PE to graduate. You were required to take Freshman PE along with health, so you got 1/2 credit hour freshman year and needed one more semester to get the other 1/2 credit. As an option you could satisfy your second pe credit by lettering in any varsity sport. This typically meant you were going to play a sport for at least 3 years before you would likely get your varsity letter and satisfy grad requirements.

As for the quarter rule. That would likely be a bad idea to drop the limit. Some coaches would have the same 6 or 7 girls playing 8 quarters per night. If you were to remove the rule I would think you would want to require before any player starts their 6th quarter all available players must have been in at least 5 quarters. That could apply to quarters 7 and 8 requiring all a available players appear in at least 6 or 7 quarters.

Some teams play too hard to stay healthy playing 8 quarters per game night.
 

Red14

Active member
Back when I played you had to have one credit of PE to graduate. You were required to take Freshman PE along with health, so you got 1/2 credit hour freshman year and needed one more semester to get the other 1/2 credit. As an option you could satisfy your second pe credit by lettering in any varsity sport. This typically meant you were going to play a sport for at least 3 years before you would likely get your varsity letter and satisfy grad requirements.

As for the quarter rule. That would likely be a bad idea to drop the limit. Some coaches would have the same 6 or 7 girls playing 8 quarters per night. If you were to remove the rule I would think you would want to require before any player starts their 6th quarter all available players must have been in at least 5 quarters. That could apply to quarters 7 and 8 requiring all a available players appear in at least 6 or 7 quarters.

Some teams play too hard to stay healthy playing 8 quarters per game night.
I just think the quarter limit was instituted to handle the 5% of coaches who would abuse it. I think you would need to put in some framework, kind of like you, as to how this should be done. Now generally, I don't like to go rules crazy, that means someone, another assistant or scorebook keeper now gets to track quarters. Like pitch counts in baseball, we micromanage these things way too much. If you have a coach who's playing JV games to for win at all costs, then that's a separate discussion with the head coach and AD/ Principal. JV basketball is for mainly developmental purposes. No one gives a rip if the JV teams win all of their games.
 

Mr. Slippery

Well-known member
PE credit. lol

jtk
()
Don't laugh. Some schools award PE credit to kids who play sports. My school requires that a kid complete 2 seasons of athletics (I assume activities like band and cheer also count). It is on the coaches to determine if the kid met all the requirements to earn the credit. As a result, my school has basically eliminated PE classes and the PE teacher's position (health classes can be taken online).

I enjoyed gym class, but it would've been nice to get my PE credit from the sports I played in order to create a couple openings in my schedule.
 

Mr. Slippery

Well-known member
I had no idea that freshmen girls basketball was basically dead in Stark County. I find it hard to believe that not one FL school, including perennial power Hoover and huge enrollment Jackson and McKinley and Glen Oak (all pretty good programs in the recent past), could field a freshmen team.
As of a couple years ago, I heard there were only a few of the Fed schools that had freshman teams at that time (IIRC, Jackson, Hoover, and McKinley). For the article whose link I posted, I wish the reporter would've talked to Northwest for that article to give some insight as to 1) how they've been able to field a freshman team and 2) who they've played. I also wish the reporter would've talked to schools of different sizes instead of just the trio of Fed schools. Perhaps he did and didn't get any insightful responses worth printing. At this point, part of the problem with trying to field a freshman team might be a belief that "even if we can field one, there aren't enough teams within an hour's drive to create a schedule to make it worth fielding a team."
 
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jtk

Well-known member
Don't laugh. Some schools award PE credit to kids who play sports. My school requires that a kid complete 2 seasons of athletics (I assume activities like band and cheer also count). It is on the coaches to determine if the kid met all the requirements to earn the credit. As a result, my school has basically eliminated PE classes and the PE teacher's position (health classes can be taken online).

I enjoyed gym class, but it would've been nice to get my PE credit from the sports I played in order to create a couple openings in my schedule.
i know school districts do this and it's a joke. thats why i lol.

those people in your district who went to school to teach and now have to find another career.

ODE is a joke these days.

jtk
()
 

Red14

Active member
Don't laugh. Some schools award PE credit to kids who play sports. My school requires that a kid complete 2 seasons of athletics (I assume activities like band and cheer also count). It is on the coaches to determine if the kid met all the requirements to earn the credit. As a result, my school has basically eliminated PE classes and the PE teacher's position (health classes can be taken online).

I enjoyed gym class, but it would've been nice to get my PE credit from the sports I played in order to create a couple openings in my schedule.
And I think that's why it's an option. Some kids really struggle even fitting a required PE class in their schedule. If they are playing a varsity sport, why not just give them the credit. The idea of PE class is for the kids who DON'T get exercise to introduce them to exercise. The kids playing a sport are already working out.
 

Red14

Active member
As of a couple years ago, I heard there were only a few of the Fed schools had freshman teams at that time (IIRC, Jackson, Hoover, and McKinley). For the article whose link I posted, I wish the reporter would've talked to Northwest for that article to give some insight as to 1) how they've been able to field a freshman team and 2) who they've played. I also wish the reporter would've talked to schools of different sizes instead of just the trio of Fed schools. Perhaps he did and didn't get any insightful responses worth printing. At this point, part of the problem with trying to field a freshman team might be a belief that "even if we can field one, there aren't enough teams within an hour's drive to create a schedule to make it worth fielding a team."
Freshman teams are almost dead. There are very few small schools who have freshman teams, many struggle to have JV teams. There is also a natural decline in that a lot of girls, once they reach high school and it becomes more about boys, grades, other activities, sports just gets pushed out.
 

Mr. Slippery

Well-known member
i know school districts do this and it's a joke. thats why i lol.

those people in your district who went to school to teach and now have to find another career.

ODE is a joke these days.

jtk
()
FWIW, I would argue that the sports I played were far more physically demanding than gym class. From that standpoint, I can agree with awarding PE credit for playing sports in lieu of taking a gym class. I don't care for the elimination of PE classes in situations where no viable substitute is available. It would seem the ODE's plan is to create a generation of overweight to obese people who spent their school years learning how to take standardized tests.
 

MCGal

Well-known member
It doesn’t seem to be affecting a lot of smaller schools, at least locally and in Wayne County. My son is a head JV girls coach at a D-4 school and he has 11 girls on his team. Every school in their league has a JV team. Now because of the size of these schools their JV teams are made up of mostly freshman and sophomores. They only have a very limited freshman schedule, like 4 games.
I’ve noticed the bigger schools still have separate freshman teams, maybe they shouldn’t and play those girls on JV If there is a numbers problem. Maybe some do, that I’m not sure of.
We're not talking about teams that have enough to field a freshman team... and the bigger schools are having just as many if not more issues with numbers.
 

MCGal

Well-known member
BTW, the Sports for PE credit is much more involved than many of you are realizing. Many districts also offer summer PE and both options are primarily for good students who want the space in their daily schedule freed up to take AP/advanced classes and more academic classes. A lot of kids are kept from taking some of these in places the other options aren't offered due to lack of time in their schedule.
 
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