Has anyone seen this?

M

MikeFelts

Member
This is going to go one of two ways and it may make people upset, but I am going to say it.

Ohio Refs do not respect female wrestling!

I have seen it all year and it is wrong. I have seen it in early season duals, to midseason tournaments and even at Girls State/Boys Sectionals (where we pick the "best" ones to ref those big tournaments). The lack of hustle to get into position to make a call. The time they let a stalemate go to help the boys progress out of a position. The cheap shots they let boys get by with on their female opponents. And the worse part is it will not get better because nothing will ever be done about it.

With that said I have seen refs treat them the same and for that I THANK the small percentage of them that do.
Girls wrestling is here to stay.
They only makes our sport stronger.
Can not wait for the day OH gets on board and sanctions girls wrestling.
 
 
MikeFelts said:
This is going to go one of two ways and it may make people upset, but I am going to say it.

Ohio Refs do not respect female wrestling!

I have seen it all year and it is wrong. I have seen it in early season duals, to midseason tournaments and even at Girls State/Boys Sectionals (where we pick the "best" ones to ref those big tournaments). The lack of hustle to get into position to make a call. The time they let a stalemate go to help the boys progress out of a position. The cheap shots they let boys get by with on their female opponents. And the worse part is it will not get better because nothing will ever be done about it.

With that said I have seen refs treat them the same and for that I THANK the small percentage of them that do.
Girls wrestling is here to stay.
They only makes our sport stronger.
Can not wait for the day OH gets on board and sanctions girls wrestling.
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Congratulations on typing the dumbest thing I have read all week.
 
Although you feel that you have seen this, I absolutely disagree. I was at the NE girls district tournament as well as the state tournament & I saw some of the best officials at both tournaments.

In addition, an official that would allow cheap shots probably wouldn't be officiating at many important events going forward. I think that you are way off base.
 
I have an easy solution to this. Girls wrestling should be freestyle. Girl do not wrestle folkstyle except when high schools make them during folkstyle season. Women's college wrestling is freestyle. They are not even wrestling the style that they will in college. It makes no sense for girls to wrestle folkstyle at all.
 
CoachA1317 said:
I have an easy solution to this. Girls wrestling should be freestyle. Girl do not wrestle folkstyle except when high schools make them during folkstyle season. Women's college wrestling is freestyle. They are not even wrestling the style that they will in college. It makes no sense for girls to wrestle folkstyle at all.
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I agree with you but it is much harder to just "do it". Finding coaches that are knowledgeable in freestyle to coach girls wrestling would be very hard because they are more than likely also coaching the boys team in folkstyle. Also finding officials would be very difficult. A lot of freestyle officials are also folk style officials or coaches/athletes that are busy during the season. In theory having freestyle for the females would be great, but in reality I don't see it happening.
 
As the father of a daughter, I can tell you I STRUGGLE out there when it is a boy vs girl.... girl vs girl, they can go all day long working each other over, boy vs boy, they can go all day working each other over... boy vs girl.. I STRUGGLE NOT STOPPING PD even faster than I would if it was B v B or G v G... so I think your assessment is off, and cheap shot is cheap shot regardless of WHO is on my mat, NOT HAPPENING.
 
pinem07 said:
I agree with you but it is much harder to just "do it". Finding coaches that are knowledgeable in freestyle to coach girls wrestling would be very hard because they are more than likely also coaching the boys team in folkstyle. Also finding officials would be very difficult. A lot of freestyle officials are also folk style officials or coaches/athletes that are busy during the season. In theory having freestyle for the females would be great, but in reality I don't see it happening.
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I am not suggest we just make an abrupt change right to it but at least start transitioning to it. Most Coaches I know who are worth anything are hardworkers and adapt to things like that. I think it would be an easier transition than most people think but would still take some time.
 
I'm curious what kind of cheap shots you're referring to. I feel like I've seen more precaution taken by referees and the boys that I have seen wrestling girls. I can't speak for obviously every situation and every where. I know that when our boys wrestle girls, they seem more nervous and afraid to A. Hurt them or B. Accidentally touch them in an inappropriate manner (and I'll be fair... or C. Lose and feel embarrassed).
 
CoachA1317 said:
I have an easy solution to this. Girls wrestling should be freestyle. Girl do not wrestle folkstyle except when high schools make them during folkstyle season. Women's college wrestling is freestyle. They are not even wrestling the style that they will in college. It makes no sense for girls to wrestle folkstyle at all.
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I was not aware of this. That is a pretty good point.

Thanks for the information.

Side note - I wish freestyle was a little easier to ref and judge (it may just because I have limited experience in it).
 
We have a few pretty high level gals (vs gals) on our team - who wrestle both the guys schedule as well as in girls tournaments + post-season.

Cant say I have seen really any cheap shots, spotty reffing...etc save for one incident - which I would even argue that the guy in question was just doing what they would normally do. Maybe more restraint could have been used, but I also believe the ultimate form of respect in our sport is to go out there and wrestle the same (to a degree) against everyone.
As other have said, I actually find a lot of refs to be overly-cautious when one of the gals is involved. I have seen this improving quite a bit as well to be fair. Especially when it comes to the all girl events. Those have been great and I have been generally pleased with officiating. We have honestly come a long way. This coming from someone who usually gets into it with a ref at least 1-2x a season.

If I am being honest - in my personal experience (meaning I don't want to generalize this to everyone, as I'm sure this is not always the case) the biggest issue I have seen when it comes to girls vs fellas has been parents. Dad always thinking his girl is taking cheap shots, or the ref missed something/let the other kid get away with something, or that the table workers are screwing us/his kid over...etc. When in reality it is nothing outside of normal error.

Maybe OP has just had horrible luck. If so, I apologize and hope the trend ends. It sounds though, like some level of delusion.
 
CoachA1317 said:
I have an easy solution to this. Girls wrestling should be freestyle. Girl do not wrestle folkstyle except when high schools make them during folkstyle season. Women's college wrestling is freestyle. They are not even wrestling the style that they will in college. It makes no sense for girls to wrestle folkstyle at all.
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Before I responded I want to check with someone in the know.
I really think your idea has a lot of merit. IMO, at this very beginning phase of women wrestling in Ohio, now is the very best time for going FS to happen. However, if the OHSAA is to sanction this side of the sport, all officials would have to be registered OHSAA officials. I would really doubt that the OHSAA want to get into administering two different sides of the same sport. Just my opinion with nothing to support it.
Next, what I checked on was the number of officials that do FS. I was told that there are about 30 in our area but only about 10 actually officiate. I have asked why the difference but as of right now, I don't know the answer. I was also told that about 1/2 of those 10 do scholastic events.
IOW, right now we would be nowhere close to having enough FS officials if we had a good number of girls teams.
I guess it is a chicken and egg situation. Small numbers of competitors and it easy to make the change. Large numbers (which are good) and change becomes a lot harder.

BTW, to the original poster, I hope this was just trolling. I would invite you to show evidence of the statements you made. I see a LOT of officials and I have seen nothing of the sort.
 
What about moving the Girls season to the Spring when a lot of the Boys are working on Freestyle/Greco as well? Some HS teams have two completely different coaches for Boys and Girls (Mason is one example) and it would be much easier to do them at the same time, but some schools have the same coach for each team (Girls/Boys) so it would be hard to coach the Girls in Freestyle while at the same time coach the Boys in a normal Folkstyle season.
 
Cjlewis01 said:
I was not aware of this. That is a pretty good point.

Thanks for the information.

Side note - I wish freestyle was a little easier to ref and judge (it may just because I have limited experience in it).
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Normally people who live in the folkstyle world and start following more freestyle do normally start thinking it doesn't make sense or think things are a bit weird or hard to officiate. But once you really start to follow it you realize freestyle is easier to follow and even to ref. Folk and Free are just two completely different midsets and strategies and sometimes its hard to kind of understand the other. Especially if you live completely in one style.
 
CoachA1317 said:
Normally people who live in the folkstyle world and start following more freestyle do normally start thinking it doesn't make sense or think things are a bit weird or hard to officiate. But once you really start to follow it you realize freestyle is easier to follow and even to ref. Folk and Free are just two completely different midsets and strategies and sometimes its hard to kind of understand the other. Especially if you live completely in one style.
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Agree 100 percent!

I started following it when I started coaching so I could try and understand it better.

I still see some of those challenges at the high levels so close in slow motion with the best refs in the world makes me nervous at our level. Lol.
 
NCAAOHref said:
As the father of a daughter, I can tell you I STRUGGLE out there when it is a boy vs girl.... girl vs girl, they can go all day long working each other over, boy vs boy, they can go all day working each other over... boy vs girl.. I STRUGGLE NOT STOPPING PD even faster than I would if it was B v B or G v G... so I think your assessment is off, and cheap shot is cheap shot regardless of WHO is on my mat, NOT HAPPENING.
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To be honest I have noticed this far more often the way you are saying it.

If anything when it’s boy vs girl referees are far more likely to stop early PD than when the match is same gender.
 
As long as NFHS is involved, high school sponsored wrestling will be folkstyle. It is in every state where there is girls wrestling in the high schools, even those states where females have been wrestling much longer than Ohio.

I do not have referee numbers on me for USAW-Ohio, so I don't know where their numbers are at. What I do remember is that many of the referees that do freestyle/Greco are "mixed baggers" in the wrestling world, and I would not see them migrate to refereeing in a high school structure.

As female wrestling emerges in the state, it is going to exacerbate the officiating numbers situation on the high school side in our state. As it is there seem to be more people leaving than coming in as recruits, and now you're adding more events that need coverage.
 
bucksman said:
it is going to exacerbate the officiating numbers situation on the high school side in our state. As it is there seem to be more people leaving than coming in as recruits, and now you're adding more events that need coverage.
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@Refman and others(probably you too bucks) have been saying this for years.
I've been able to watch more FS/GR in the last few years than ever before in my life. I see a bunch of, "older" refs and few, "younger" refs and not many in between. I don't know if that's a fact, but it is something I've, 'noted.'
 
bucksman said:
. What I do remember is that many of the referees that do freestyle/Greco are "mixed baggers" in the wrestling world,
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What in the world does "mixed baggers" mean??
I have been involved in the sport for a VERY long time (actually longer than you have been living) and I have never heard that term used by anyone.
 
Jim Behrens said:
What in the world does "mixed baggers" mean??
I have been involved in the sport for a VERY long time (actually longer than you have been living) and I have never heard that term used by anyone.
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what I am trying to say is a number of the FS/GR refs are also athletes or coaches. Not necessarily the ones that do the big events, but the ones that populate the local stuff in the spring.
 
bucksman said:
what I am trying to say is a number of the FS/GR refs are also athletes or coaches. Not necessarily the ones that do the big events, but the ones that populate the local stuff in the spring.
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He is exactly correct on this point. And the point about NFHS never switching to freestyle. Not everyone refs, competes, coaches or is around FR/GR styles, but everyone involved with the sport of wrestling is involved in Folkstyle. I'd say 95% of FR/GR referees and coaches also coach folkstyle.
 
bucksman said:
As female wrestling emerges in the state, it is going to exacerbate the officiating numbers situation on the high school side in our state. As it is there seem to be more people leaving than coming in as recruits, and now you're adding more events that need coverage.
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I hadn't even thought of that aspect.

"But it only makes our sport stronger." Pfft. Yeah right.
 
knightflyer150 said:
I’m encouraging all my graduated girls to get referee license.
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We appreciate that!
I assume you know who they need to contact in the Central District but, if any of them are coming to schools in the NE have them contact me.
I started realizing what we need to do after attending the Michigan Girl's Championships last year.
We need officials desperately so this is also an invitation to all the keyboard warriors out there to step up and help the sport.
BTW, that includes the OP on this thread (who strangely enough has not posted since).
 
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