Union County Fan
Well-known member
What a crazy night. Both O-G and Kenton go down and Wapak takes St. Marys right down to the wire. Got to love high school football!
Western Buckeye League 2020
- Thread starter HighSchoolFB45
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falcon6766
Active member
I think the 2012 Ottawa Glandorf team may have been the most dominant team of the 2010's. Went 10-0 that season and lost in the 3rd round to Bishop Hartley (41-31), who under the current system would not be d4, Averaged 44 points per game in the regular season and gave up an average of 13, with 4 of those games being played in monsoon conditions. Fall 2012 was an awful weather year in October.
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WTF have kids in Defiance been doing for the last 20 years? I know the adult softball leagues, little kids’ baseball fields, and public tennis courts have disappeared over time, and GM is a shell of its former self, but these societal changes haven’t been affecting everyone else like this. Until 2003 (exactly when the football glory years ended), Defiance had the most WBL All-Sports trophies, and still is tied for second most. That accomplishment is a pipe dream at this point.
Poor Kline. He injected some excitement into Edgerton and Bryan after years of bad teams – programs that still show signs of life and have been very good in some years - only to come to this dumpster fire. With Bath and Elida showing good fight this week, it looks probable for a winless season.
Poor Kline. He injected some excitement into Edgerton and Bryan after years of bad teams – programs that still show signs of life and have been very good in some years - only to come to this dumpster fire. With Bath and Elida showing good fight this week, it looks probable for a winless season.
Thavoice
Well-known member
Just because it's all over FB does not mean it's true.
HighSchoolFB45
Well-known member
good topic but I respectfully disagree. I wouldn’t even say that’s the best OG team of this decade (I’d go with the 2016 team, they almost beat Hartley who won the state title that year). However, the 2012 team was much more “dominant” than that team. The WBL was pretty down that year. My rankings would probably go
1. 2011 Kenton - went 14-1, beat 11-4 Coldwater, 10-4 Elida, 10-2 Wapak, 8-3 OG. Lost in the state title game by 6
2. 2013 Kenton - went 13-1, beat 13-2 Coldwater, 9-2 Wapak, lost to state champion in semifinals
3. 2014 Wapak - went 12-1, beat 8-3 Bellefontaine, 11-3 Kenton, lost to Trotwood in 4OT in regional finals
4. 2012 OG - very close between 4 and 5, as neither have a quality win during the regular season but chose OG as they had a much higher margin of victory and didn’t get blown out in playoff loss
5. 2015 Wapakoneta - 12-1, beat 8-4 OG, lost in regional finals to Trotwood 33-3
The only things I've able to figure out is the middle class in Defiance is GONE (and what little bit is left largely goes to Tinora), and the re-emergence of basketball. It's crazy that we've never been able to win at football, basketball, AND baseball at the same time.
But these last few years are just horrible. How many years did baseball go not winning the league? Now they struggle to get out of sectionals? Used to be the barometer for a successful season was you won the WBL and got to regionals. Now it's win 20 games.
Even cross country and track haven't been as dominant. Remember when wrestling dominated the league? It's so up and down now. And I honestly don't even know at this point why we waste money on tennis, swimming, and soccer. They're just fighting to stay out of the basement every year.
At this point, I'm not necessarily advocating this and I know there's no where else to go....but if we're going to struggle anyway I'd almost rather be in a league close to home so we're not traveling an hour and a half one way to be the punching bag.
Folks probably know the WBL week 2 scores by now, but since they haven't been posted in this thread:
Week 2
Bath 21, Kenton 14
Shawnee 14, Celina 6
Van Wert 56, Defiance 20
Elida 14, Ottawa-Glandorf 7
St Marys 14, Wapak 7, OT
Van Wert is quietly looking like the best team in the league as they've been red hot. I'm definitely surprised like y'all about the Bath and Elida wins. After O-G's blowout win over a bad Defiance team, I am surprised to see them only score 7 against Elida. Kenton also seems to be underperforming expectations last week vs Shawnee and losing this week to a veteran Bath team. These are definitely not how anyone expected the first two weeks to go, but what an unpredictable season it's turning out to be. Looking ahead to next week, here are the matchups:
Week 3 Games
Bath (1-1) @ Elida (1-1)
Celina (1-1) @ Kenton (1-1)
Defiance (0-2) @ Shawnee (1-1)
Ottawa-Glandorf (1-1) @ St Marys (2-0)
Van Wert (2-0) @ Wapak (0-2)
OG @ SM has got to be game of the week. Bath @ Elida is an intriguing game too, I mean, when was the last time anyone said that?
Week 2
Bath 21, Kenton 14
Shawnee 14, Celina 6
Van Wert 56, Defiance 20
Elida 14, Ottawa-Glandorf 7
St Marys 14, Wapak 7, OT
Van Wert is quietly looking like the best team in the league as they've been red hot. I'm definitely surprised like y'all about the Bath and Elida wins. After O-G's blowout win over a bad Defiance team, I am surprised to see them only score 7 against Elida. Kenton also seems to be underperforming expectations last week vs Shawnee and losing this week to a veteran Bath team. These are definitely not how anyone expected the first two weeks to go, but what an unpredictable season it's turning out to be. Looking ahead to next week, here are the matchups:
Week 3 Games
Bath (1-1) @ Elida (1-1)
Celina (1-1) @ Kenton (1-1)
Defiance (0-2) @ Shawnee (1-1)
Ottawa-Glandorf (1-1) @ St Marys (2-0)
Van Wert (2-0) @ Wapak (0-2)
OG @ SM has got to be game of the week. Bath @ Elida is an intriguing game too, I mean, when was the last time anyone said that?
ShoelessJoe
Active member
A lot of things have happened in Defiance last 20 years, but I agree with dhsgog06 it is mainly the loss of the middle class. In 1997 when we won State FB we graduated over 250. Now we are graduating around 175. The entire 75 lost is in the middle class. We still have the same number of kids in the lower demographic classes. Before complaining too much DHS has 5 State Championships in recent years (3- baseball, 1- Basketball, 1- Cross Country). No other WBL school can say that. I agree mostly with Nash, but Defiance still has baseball fields that are being used. The numbers may be down some, but Defiance still has a fairly good youth baseball program. Defiance suffers because 2 other school districts (Tinora and Ayersville) have areas inside the city, which kind of land locks Defiance. They could and should be better in Football. They currently are just terrible. I have never liked the way the youth (5th & 6th grade) program has been run with very poor coaching. I think it actually drives kids away from playing as they get older. I think the HS coaching staff needs to take part of the blame. They are good people and work hard. Recent teams have been penalty and turnover prone which is a sign of lack of discipline and toughness. Sure the talent level has been down, but you can still play the game right with discipline and toughness. One of the things I worry about most is apathy. We have been bad for so long that very few even care any more. It will be an uphill battle to turn this around.
Bless Em All
Well-known member
One good coach could turn Defiance around. It’s happened all over the state. The kids have to be interested. No kid wants to commit the time to a sport to lose. Sad, I know, but see it all the time. I’ve watched strong football towns like St Mary’s, Celina, Wapakoneta, Piqua, Troy, Versailles, West Milton, Urbana, etc have declines and rebirths.
Problem is, we HAD the good coach who WAS that guy to turn them around.....and he was great for about 18 years. Then even he couldn't get through to the kids his last decade.
Kline has won everywhere he's been, including Bryan which was one of the worst jobs in the area before Cooper (and then Kline) resurrected it. Both of those guys are now at Defiance, and nothing.
One thing I question last year: you were a 4th quarter let down against Elida and a last minute score against OG from being 6-4 in 18. A lot of talent back in 19. WHY exactly did the offense change? And it's not like it was a simple switch and something close....it was spread to Pistol Wing T. Of course the offense struggled after that.
That's part of it, I think. There just hasn't been an identity for 15+ years. Pre 2004 everyone knew what Defiance was going to do. Pound it down your throat, play good, tough defense, and hit you with the deep ball when you're lulled to sleep. The last great team was 2003. Around 04, they switched to a more spread based offense to the same success every year. Some years they scored but couldn't defend. Some years the defense kept us in it. But the end result from 04-07 was 6-4.
08 was a good year, the last good team. That team got back to its roots for the most part, and ended up sharing a league title while giving Avon all it coukd handle (and honestly outplayed them) in the playoffs.
Starting in 09 it was just....gone. 13 was a playoff year, but they weren't good.
Maybe Kline just isn't the guy for Defiance. Good coach, good guy, but maybe we need another Buti to come in and light a fire, get some energy, and spark it again. Problem is, when Buti couldn't even win being Buti, I have no clue who that guy is.
Kline has won everywhere he's been, including Bryan which was one of the worst jobs in the area before Cooper (and then Kline) resurrected it. Both of those guys are now at Defiance, and nothing.
One thing I question last year: you were a 4th quarter let down against Elida and a last minute score against OG from being 6-4 in 18. A lot of talent back in 19. WHY exactly did the offense change? And it's not like it was a simple switch and something close....it was spread to Pistol Wing T. Of course the offense struggled after that.
That's part of it, I think. There just hasn't been an identity for 15+ years. Pre 2004 everyone knew what Defiance was going to do. Pound it down your throat, play good, tough defense, and hit you with the deep ball when you're lulled to sleep. The last great team was 2003. Around 04, they switched to a more spread based offense to the same success every year. Some years they scored but couldn't defend. Some years the defense kept us in it. But the end result from 04-07 was 6-4.
08 was a good year, the last good team. That team got back to its roots for the most part, and ended up sharing a league title while giving Avon all it coukd handle (and honestly outplayed them) in the playoffs.
Starting in 09 it was just....gone. 13 was a playoff year, but they weren't good.
Maybe Kline just isn't the guy for Defiance. Good coach, good guy, but maybe we need another Buti to come in and light a fire, get some energy, and spark it again. Problem is, when Buti couldn't even win being Buti, I have no clue who that guy is.
The demographic stuff has been talked about a lot before. I guess I'll defer on that. The enrollment is down but as I mentioned, why has that not mattered in other WBL schools? I'm actually glad the enrollment has gone down because it means we stay away from Division I in other sports. I just wish the kids were better and had more motivation, whatever. No one plays tennis anymore, girls never golf until they join the team in high school, and hell, whenever we've had really good swimmers in the past they've transferred. Aren't there only 6 Little/Boys League teams now? I think 6 teams made one division of the Little League when I played. Varsity baseball has had its worst 3-year stretch since the 80s. The state title point is a good one, and I still wouldn't trade Defiance's overall athletic history for anyone else in the WBL, or most other places as well. I just wish the football team could make or get close to the playoffs every few years instead of being mostly awful for 50 years now.
That's a point I don't think anyone realizes. They see the late 90s and early 2000s success and assume great program, but really from the time we were voted out of the NWOAL until Buti came to town were just 35 years in the wilderness. The mid 60s were ok, and there was the random 1985 where we weren't terrible, but a program has to be truly terrible to win 59 games combined over 2 decades.
So really we had 1991-2008 where we ranged from decent to great. 18 years out of the last 65. Jerry Buti showed Defiance can win at football, and the city showed it will show up every week and support a winner. There's no reason it can't happen again, but at this point I have pittle hope. 47 bad years tend to outweigh 18 good ones, especially one coach was responsible for the good years and even he couldn't maintain it at the end.
We are and always will be a baseball town, but it's pathetic that with the talent we have roaming the halls we're just hoping to avoid running clocks and winless seasons. We went 6-4 through most of my high school years and that sucked. Right now I'd take it again.
Edit: Sometimes especially during this last decade I've wondered if the baseball program purposely pushes kids away from football. Look at all the great baseball kids, the ones who went to college and later pro. Did ANY of them play football, or if they did was it for more than a year or 2? Most played basketball. Whether it was because of the injury risk or just the spring season into ACME wore them out and they used the fall to recover, it just seemed fishy to me that those guys weren't playing. Those were some great athletes that would have helped out big time.
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ShoelessJoe
Active member
When Jerry Buti arrived in Defiance he not only got the players to buy in, he got the parents to buy in with a hard work and toughness approach. The Millennial parents of the 2000's are much different and like too much personal control over the outcome of their kid's sports careers. As I have heard some famous coaches say, Kids haven't changed the parents have. That change in parent's attitude is what eventually ended the success for Buti. If you go down Clinton St. in Defiance and look at the FB writing on the retail business windows each week you see a lot of individual player names and numbers. In the hay day of DHS football in the 90's and early 2000's there was never a players name written on the windows. It was all about the team. That subtle difference tells a lot about the attitude of parents these days. It's about their kid first, not the team. There aren't a whole lot of athletes roaming the halls of DHS not playing FB. Of course there a few, there always has been. For the record, Defiance currently has 12 Little League teams for ages 9-12. The most they ever had was 24 in the late 90's. It has been steady at 12 for the past 8-10 years. DHS has been blessed with outstanding coaches the last 3 decades, and an administration, school board, a general public that has supported the district's sports with the best facilities in the WBL. It is not like that at all schools.
ramdog22
Active member
I really hate to blame the other sports for why the football program can't succeed, but it is definitely part of the problem. Kids don't want to get hurt playing football, but have Tommy John surgery from over throwing in baseball. Most of the senior class played JV last year. The junior class right now is loaded with talent! They have the best players on the football team! The sophomores have a few kids that will definitely play a big part if they succeed next year. Freshman class is small with a handful of good kids. The 8th graders have a really good team and numbers, QB looks the part and if he stays healthy he is going to be a stud in high school. Next year's success will depend on the starting QB, this years is a senior who is starting Varsity for the first time. I really thought Kline would have turned around by now. He has been able pull talent from other fall sports, but I wish some of these kids had played football at least since their freshman season.
Thavoice
Well-known member
Baseball and football can co exist if the coaches work together.
I coached summer baseball for HS kids for nearly a decade where both programs are pretty decent.....
Come ACME tourny time, if our starting pitcher was a FB player the football coach would have him only be a spotter so he can be fresh to pitch. 7 on 7 and a tourny game? He would encourage them to play baseball. There were times they used the third strong QB in a 7 on 7. In turn, there were nights when football had something scheduled that we would not schedule anything to conflict. Heck, the football coach has been known to even throw some BP in the summer.
In contrast, at another school I coached that programs did not coexist on harmony it was a struggle and even got a nasty voicemail from the hoops coach because kids missed an open gym for a baseball game.
It honestly feels like the 2 USED to coexist. For whatever reason, football, basketball, and baseball struggle to coexist. Other than a one off here and there, I can't remember a time in my life when all 3 were good at the same time.
I agree they can work together, for whatever reason it just doesn't seem to be the case right now. Whether that's coaches just not on the same page, the baseball program becoming THE thing....idk.
Week 3 WBL Final Scores
Shawnee 7, Defiance 0
Van Wert 34, Wapak 0
Elida 27, Bath 7
O-G 27, St Marys 20, 2OT
Kenton 51, Celina 28
Standings halfway through the regular season
3-0 Van Wert
2-1 Elida
2-1 Kenton
2-1 Shawnee
2-1 St Marys
2-1 O-G
1-2 Bath
1-2 Celina
0-3 Defiance
0-3 Wapak
Shawnee 7, Defiance 0
Van Wert 34, Wapak 0
Elida 27, Bath 7
O-G 27, St Marys 20, 2OT
Kenton 51, Celina 28
Standings halfway through the regular season
3-0 Van Wert
2-1 Elida
2-1 Kenton
2-1 Shawnee
2-1 St Marys
2-1 O-G
1-2 Bath
1-2 Celina
0-3 Defiance
0-3 Wapak
This was the first Friday I had free this season, so I watched bits of the Celina-Kenton live stream and listened to parts of the Van Wert-Wapak and OG-SM games.
Van Wert obviously the team to beat. VW puts a running clock on Wapak as their QB Owen Treece just lit the defense up. I believe the first 3 VW TD's were just Treece going up the middle on QB runs. Wapak had chances in this game as VW turned it over twice in the first half, and Wapak had at least 2 offensive possessions (maybe more, was switching between feeds) where they were 1st & Goal, and both times they came away empty handed with turnover on downs. We already know the Wapak offense is pretty uninspiring, but at one point that radio announcers said on a 4th & goal, Wapak passed it into the end zone where two Redskins both went to catch the ball, collided, and the ball fell to the ground. I guess that's what happens when they try to pass. At any rate, VW defense deserves credit for the shutout and their first win at Wapak since 2004.
Celina had an early lead on Kenton, but that didn't much matter. I was a bit surprised at Kenton's offense... their air raid isn't anywhere near as lethal as it has been in the past. I think I saw in some posts that their offense is breaking in a lot of new WR's. For the most part, it just looked like Kenton was screen passing Celina over and over... and it was working. I was also surprised to see Kenton actually do some HB runs out of the spread. I guess gone are the days Kenton solely throws 70 times a game? What isn't gone... is Kenton's special teams. They went 0-3 on 2 pt conversions, and missed a couple XP kicks, but made their last few. This game pretty much just got sloppy towards the end. Kenton clearly the better team over Celina.
The OG-SM game went about how most probably thought it would. OG held on to a 6-0 lead going into the 4th quarter, and an eventual 13-13 tie at the end of regulation. Credit SM for fighting back in this one. Roughriders had their first lead of the game in OT when they went up 20-13. The Titans had a miraculous TD pass on 4th & Goal in the first OT to extend the game. And then another TD pass in the 2nd OT on what I think was 3rd & Goal. OG defense held as SM turned it over on downs. Likely the game of the year in the WBL.
Elsewhere, from what I saw online, there was a pass interference call that Defiance faithful seemed to disagree with which set Shawnee up for the game's only score. However, Defiance had scoring chances and just blew them. Sounded like this was a pretty frustrating game for both teams, although I'm sure the defensive coaches loved it.
Elida's Kyle Harmon is absolutely coach of the year at this midway point. Their only loss was lopsided to a very dominant Van Wert squad. And they hold very impressive wins over O-G and now Bath. I think all of us were like... "what happened to OG?" when they lost to Elida, but another week and this time a 20-point win over a veteran Bath team. I'm surprised especially as this is Harmon's first year at Elida and they apparently have a lot of young guys, not as much depth, and a lack of size. Looks like Harmon is doing something right. Surprised to see Elida's youth beat Bath's vets as Bath, in their own right, has been playing well this season.
Pretty wild WBL season so far. It's a shame we're only getting 6 weeks of it.
Van Wert obviously the team to beat. VW puts a running clock on Wapak as their QB Owen Treece just lit the defense up. I believe the first 3 VW TD's were just Treece going up the middle on QB runs. Wapak had chances in this game as VW turned it over twice in the first half, and Wapak had at least 2 offensive possessions (maybe more, was switching between feeds) where they were 1st & Goal, and both times they came away empty handed with turnover on downs. We already know the Wapak offense is pretty uninspiring, but at one point that radio announcers said on a 4th & goal, Wapak passed it into the end zone where two Redskins both went to catch the ball, collided, and the ball fell to the ground. I guess that's what happens when they try to pass. At any rate, VW defense deserves credit for the shutout and their first win at Wapak since 2004.
Celina had an early lead on Kenton, but that didn't much matter. I was a bit surprised at Kenton's offense... their air raid isn't anywhere near as lethal as it has been in the past. I think I saw in some posts that their offense is breaking in a lot of new WR's. For the most part, it just looked like Kenton was screen passing Celina over and over... and it was working. I was also surprised to see Kenton actually do some HB runs out of the spread. I guess gone are the days Kenton solely throws 70 times a game? What isn't gone... is Kenton's special teams. They went 0-3 on 2 pt conversions, and missed a couple XP kicks, but made their last few. This game pretty much just got sloppy towards the end. Kenton clearly the better team over Celina.
The OG-SM game went about how most probably thought it would. OG held on to a 6-0 lead going into the 4th quarter, and an eventual 13-13 tie at the end of regulation. Credit SM for fighting back in this one. Roughriders had their first lead of the game in OT when they went up 20-13. The Titans had a miraculous TD pass on 4th & Goal in the first OT to extend the game. And then another TD pass in the 2nd OT on what I think was 3rd & Goal. OG defense held as SM turned it over on downs. Likely the game of the year in the WBL.
Elsewhere, from what I saw online, there was a pass interference call that Defiance faithful seemed to disagree with which set Shawnee up for the game's only score. However, Defiance had scoring chances and just blew them. Sounded like this was a pretty frustrating game for both teams, although I'm sure the defensive coaches loved it.
Elida's Kyle Harmon is absolutely coach of the year at this midway point. Their only loss was lopsided to a very dominant Van Wert squad. And they hold very impressive wins over O-G and now Bath. I think all of us were like... "what happened to OG?" when they lost to Elida, but another week and this time a 20-point win over a veteran Bath team. I'm surprised especially as this is Harmon's first year at Elida and they apparently have a lot of young guys, not as much depth, and a lack of size. Looks like Harmon is doing something right. Surprised to see Elida's youth beat Bath's vets as Bath, in their own right, has been playing well this season.
Pretty wild WBL season so far. It's a shame we're only getting 6 weeks of it.
HighSchoolFB45
Well-known member
WBL Power rankings
1. Van Wert
2. OG
3. Elida
4. St. Mary’s
5. Kenton
6. Bath
7. Wapak
8. Shawnee
9. Celina
10. Defiance
1. Van Wert
2. OG
3. Elida
4. St. Mary’s
5. Kenton
6. Bath
7. Wapak
8. Shawnee
9. Celina
10. Defiance
falcon6766
Active member
You should put Elida ahead of OG.....both teams have the same record and the bulldogs won the head to head matchup.
and I am an OG fan.
Trying to remember when the running clock started. They lost to Trotwood 41-7 in the 2016 playoffs.
Beezer70
Active member
First time in the WBL Moyer had a running clock. One thing I didn’t understand was we had multiple kids out on both sides of the ball first 2 weeks and he pulls the starters seemed like early in second half. I would have thought they needed time together. Offense is so vanilla without that standout RB like a Hall or Kaeck back there
jonmoxon
Well-known member
Which is crazy because Van Wert beat Elida 55-20.
Thavoice
Well-known member
I have noticed for quite a long time now that the Kenton Passing attack has become so much east/west and less north/south. Granted, I only see them once a year, sometimes twice, but it seems like the bulk of their passing game has been 5 yards or less, or 20+ downfield. I fthink if they focused a bulk on the 5-15 range it would be more effective, but hey, i dont know a thing.
jonmoxon
Well-known member
How is 0-3 Wapak in front of 2-1 Shawnee and Celina, who beat them?