Josie Davis DQ’d

A few points.

1. I’ve been around this sport, wrestler and coach, for over 20 years. The head ref in that match is one of the best, if not the best, in Southwest OH.

2. Nobody can tell from the video when the move became illegal. The ref had to adjust his position several times to get the best angle to see if there was pressure on the carotid artery. So anyone saying with certainty that this move is 100% legal is being disingenuous.

3. The coach said it was the doctor's decision for the girl not to continue. I've yet to see any retracted comments from all the people blasting the Brecksville coaching staff for "coaching" the girl not to continue. This was an absurd statement from the beginning.
 
If anything it should have been treated like a head and arm situation that starts legal and the arm slips out...call it PD
Right here you lost all credibility. When arm slips out, it’s illegal, not potentially dangerous.

it’s on the wrestler who is using a move in the head/neck region to keep it legal.

and as mentioned before, with a chin whip/wrench, hands don’t need to be locked. If the arm encircling neck/head is pinned into your hip/waist for leverage, it’s illegal. If you’re on neck and not chin, it’s illegal.

didn’t see the video but man, ppl talking lawsuits and such, give me a break. Wrong call? Idk, maybe. Unlawful bc they sided on safety? Laughable. Ppl talking like the mafia had bets that needed to be hedged in this match.
 
This is what I am saying...something doesn't seem right about the whole thing. And...if it is a concussion there is a long protocol with concussions in high school sports, you can't just hop back in 24 hours later. Even being cleared by a doctor there is still a process of light activity before full clearance to make sure symptoms are gone.

After watching the match for about the 15th time, I really don't think the head ref even did that bad other than being influenced by the assistant ref who seemed ready to jump right on top of the call as soon as the move was hit. The first one called illegal was awarded a takedown and had a full count plus before being called illegal. There is no way that should have happened. If anything it should have been treated like a head and arm situation that starts legal and the arm slips out...call it PD. On the second one that was called illegal, the side ref was practically running to point it out. It still wasn't illegal. If those were illegal then every cradle hit this weekend was too because those cut off a side of the throat just as much as the chin whip does.

This whole thing is a mess and stinks of something. There is no way that match should have ended like that.
You are correct about the return to play protocol if an athlete was DIAGNOSED with a concussion. If an HNC injury is SUSPECTED, the doctor is going to error on the side of caution and remove the athlete from competition. After an examination AWAY FROM MATSIDE, if there is no head trauma or concussion or anything else, the athlete CAN return to practice or competition the next day. All that must be done is OHSAA’s return to competition form is completed and given to a school administrator. Ohio has had a concussion law on the books for several years now. I know of no doctor, or ref or anyone else that wants to be sued because they let an athlete compete when an HNC injury was suspected at ANY LEVEL of competition. And before anyone asks “duh, what is an HNC injury?” Head, neck, cervical. Next we are going to hear that the attending physician was in cahoots with Brecksville schools just to screw the other wrestler out of her 1st vs 2nd place match. Some keyboard warriors are just plain stupid and take high school and middle school sports way to serious. These are teenage and pre teen KIDS and not paid athletes. It’s not the end of the world. Win or lose, the sun still rises the next day.
 
Right here you lost all credibility. When arm slips out, it’s illegal, not potentially dangerous.

it’s on the wrestler who is using a move in the head/neck region to keep it legal.

and as mentioned before, with a chin whip/wrench, hands don’t need to be locked. If the arm encircling neck/head is pinned into your hip/waist for leverage, it’s illegal. If you’re on neck and not chin, it’s illegal.

didn’t see the video but man, ppl talking lawsuits and such, give me a break. Wrong call? Idk, maybe. Unlawful bc they sided on safety? Laughable. Ppl talking like the mafia had bets that needed to be hedged in this match.
Coach, NFHS rule book page 38. Rule 7.2 Article 6. “ A wrestler applying a legal hold/maneuver shal not be penalized when the opponent turns a legal hold/maneuver into an illegal hold/maneuver. The referee shall cause the hold/maneuver to be released when it becomes illegal. The match need not be stopped unless the referee finds it necessary in order to correct the situation. Whenever possible, an illegal hold/maneuver shall be prevented rather than penalized.
 
A few points.

1. I’ve been around this sport, wrestler and coach, for over 20 years. The head ref in that match is one of the best, if not the best, in Southwest OH.

2. Nobody can tell from the video when the move became illegal. The ref had to adjust his position several times to get the best angle to see if there was pressure on the carotid artery. So anyone saying with certainty that this move is 100% legal is being disingenuous.

3. The coach said it was the doctor's decision for the girl not to continue. I've yet to see any retracted comments from all the people blasting the Brecksville coaching staff for "coaching" the girl not to continue. This was an absurd statement from the beginning.
You will not see an apology or retracted statements from any of the keyboard warriors. That would require them to put on their big boy pants and admit they were wrong. Much easier to hide behind the keyboard to criticize others, point fingers at and make excuses.
 

If she did this. It is illegal. Anything else depends on where pressure is. Quick Google search found this video and that the assassin is an illegal hold.
She didn't hit the Assassin, she hit a chin whip (or what we always called "the middle school move"). Ends in the same position but one is illegal from the start due to the way it is applied and taken over, the other is a legal move. Which she hit, in the same match, and every other match, and probably every match all season, with no illegal call.
 
Coach, NFHS rule book page 38. Rule 7.2 Article 6. “ A wrestler applying a legal hold/maneuver shal not be penalized when the opponent turns a legal hold/maneuver into an illegal hold/maneuver. The referee shall cause the hold/maneuver to be released when it becomes illegal. The match need not be stopped unless the referee finds it necessary in order to correct the situation. Whenever possible, an illegal hold/maneuver shall be prevented rather than penalized.

Beat me to it. Thank you!
 
I watched it several times. It isn't even a chin whip, she has a front headlock. There was nothing there, and at MOST you might have PD, but I didn't even have that. I officiated her a few times last year. I know what's coming. It was a bad call period.
 
and as mentioned before, with a chin whip/wrench, hands don’t need to be locked. If the arm encircling neck/head is pinned into your hip/waist for leverage, it’s illegal. If you’re on neck and not chin, it’s illegal.

It seems very clear to me that the ref explained to her during the first stoppage that it was illegal due to the hand/wrist/arm across the neck and not on the chin. The second one is hard to tell in the video if shes on the chin or not, i'd have to say obviously not since it was stopped for the same thing. She shouldn't have put herself in that position. I feel bad for both girls in this case.
 
A few points.

1. I’ve been around this sport, wrestler and coach, for over 20 years. The head ref in that match is one of the best, if not the best, in Southwest OH.

2. Nobody can tell from the video when the move became illegal. The ref had to adjust his position several times to get the best angle to see if there was pressure on the carotid artery. So anyone saying with certainty that this move is 100% legal is being disingenuous.

3. The coach said it was the doctor's decision for the girl not to continue. I've yet to see any retracted comments from all the people blasting the Brecksville coaching staff for "coaching" the girl not to continue. This was an absurd statement from the beginning.
I didn’t know there was such thing as a good ref in SW Ohio 😂😂
 
I don’t know Josie well, but I know her a bit. This ran the Wednesday after the state tournament. I could never have written it. Tons of respect for this young lady, I think she’s going to do big things in life, on the mat and, especially, off the mat .
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There’s a million reasons a person may not be able to officiate. They may have mobility issues or they may have family obligations or kids that are wrestling. It gets old every time someone complains about an officiating issue to respond “then become an official.”
It also gets old that every time a keyboard warrior sees a call that they don't like, it is because the official is blind, slow, old, incompetent, whatever.
Substitute the word "reasons" with "excuses" and you have a point. Officiating is NOT for everyone but until you have walked a mile in someone else's shoes, you are are just blowing hot air. BTW, none of the "reasons" you cited seem to keep them from getting to their computer and complaining.
Being critical behind a keyboard and a screen name is really easy. Watching a match 10 times with slo-mo replay is silly easy. Spouting off nonsense on rules you don't understand takes zero talent.
I might not be very good but schools hire me. if you are better than I am (and I would hope you are), then we REALLY need you. The number of officials is about 50% of what it was 10 years ago. Aside from age, do you wonder why? Where is the sport going to be in 10 years?
 
There’s a million reasons a person may not be able to officiate. They may have mobility issues or they may have family obligations or kids that are wrestling. It gets old every time someone complains about an officiating issue to respond “then become an official.”
I’m just saying if you want your complaints to hold merit, prove you’ve earned that right. Otherwise we’ll just take what is said at face value, that’s all. No sleep lost on our end :)
 
It also gets old that every time a keyboard warrior sees a call that they don't like, it is because the official is blind, slow, old, incompetent, whatever.
Substitute the word "reasons" with "excuses" and you have a point. Officiating is NOT for everyone but until you have walked a mile in someone else's shoes, you are are just blowing hot air. BTW, none of the "reasons" you cited seem to keep them from getting to their computer and complaining.
Being critical behind a keyboard and a screen name is really easy. Watching a match 10 times with slo-mo replay is silly easy. Spouting off nonsense on rules you don't understand takes zero talent.
I might not be very good but schools hire me. if you are better than I am (and I would hope you are), then we REALLY need you. The number of officials is about 50% of what it was 10 years ago. Aside from age, do you wonder why? Where is the sport going to be in 10 years?
Well Jim, you didn’t comment before in another thread when I stated that I was an official years ago and it was a good old boys club. Everyone had their own gig and it was next to impossible to get any matches because it was a bunch of guys that just had their buddies working. You’ll be hard pressed to find many, if any, posts where I trash any official. However, every single time there is a complaint, rather then acknowledge a call was blown, it’s “go get licensed.” I’m sure the same people that say that have never complained about a bad call against their favorite football or basketball team. The fact is, this is literally a forum for discussion and everyone has the right to express their opinion whether you agree or not.
 
It also gets old that every time a keyboard warrior sees a call that they don't like, it is because the official is blind, slow, old, incompetent, whatever.
Substitute the word "reasons" with "excuses" and you have a point. Officiating is NOT for everyone but until you have walked a mile in someone else's shoes, you are are just blowing hot air. BTW, none of the "reasons" you cited seem to keep them from getting to their computer and complaining.
Being critical behind a keyboard and a screen name is really easy. Watching a match 10 times with slo-mo replay is silly easy. Spouting off nonsense on rules you don't understand takes zero talent.
I might not be very good but schools hire me. if you are better than I am (and I would hope you are), then we REALLY need you. The number of officials is about 50% of what it was 10 years ago. Aside from age, do you wonder why? Where is the sport going to be in 10 years?

It also gets old when officials will, on an open mic, bad mouth a coach at the state tournament amd have his buddies stick up for him and claim ita a shame it got caught on mic instead of saying a reputable official would never act act like that.
 
With Jim voicing on a public forum that people are little trolls. He should not be reffing. There are levels of professionalism. Most refs do. Some dont
 
I’m just saying if you want your complaints to hold merit, prove you’ve earned that right. Otherwise we’ll just take what is said at face value, that’s all. No sleep lost on our end :)
Again, this is the most illogical response, a person can come up with. There are infinite scenarios that would exist. Don’t like how the President is running the country, run for President or shut your trap. Don’t like how the cops handled something, well go be a policeman or stop complaining. Don’t like that WalMart only has one register open, put in an application. Don’t like the play a coach called, well grab a whistle and get coaching or zip it. It’s stupid to assert a person can’t complain about a call because they aren’t an official.
 
With Jim voicing on a public forum that people are little trolls. He should not be reffing. There are levels of professionalism. Most refs do. Some dont
I agree. His response is completely unprofessional. No wonder ppl use a screen name. After that diatribe would you want him reffing your kid if you’ve ever been critical of a call or an official??
 
It also gets old when officials will, on an open mic, bad mouth a coach at the state tournament amd have his buddies stick up for him and claim ita a shame it got caught on mic instead of saying a reputable official would never act act like that.
How can someone be impartial with that thought process? An official apology to the coach and suspension was warranted imo. It was a teaching moment.
 
I have a front head lock. Make a fist and extend the thumb with right hand. Insert the fist with thumb against the side of neck. Push against the side of neck forward, just a bit, then pull back. What until you feel opponent ease up. Snap and slide or scoop on feet....Shhhh short arm it.
 
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It also gets old when officials will, on an open mic, bad mouth a coach at the state tournament amd have his buddies stick up for him and claim ita a shame it got caught on mic instead of saying a reputable official would never act act like that.
That coach is a jimmy though. I agree with that official. Just like the other people calling you one too.
 
Coach, NFHS rule book page 38. Rule 7.2 Article 6. “ A wrestler applying a legal hold/maneuver shal not be penalized when the opponent turns a legal hold/maneuver into an illegal hold/maneuver. The referee shall cause the hold/maneuver to be released when it becomes illegal. The match need not be stopped unless the referee finds it necessary in order to correct the situation. Whenever possible, an illegal hold/maneuver shall be prevented rather than penalized.
This rule is for when the opponent turns the move into an illegal hold/manever.
 
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