Everyone makes the playoffs but have two tiers in each division?

[Sykotyk]

South Carolina did this for a number of years as well. Back when we had a four class system, 4A had two separate playoffs, 2A and 1A did as well. I think only 3A was a single state champion. In the case of South Carolina, the separation come playoff time was based on enrollment. All 32 playoff qualifiers in 4A would be ranked according to enrollment and then split into 4A-1 and 4A-2. Rarely, but it did leave the door open for the two best teams to be pitted in the same bracket and left the other bracket with maybe not the most qualified state champion.

I knew there was at least another state that did it, but couldn't think of it. Also, the state I was thinking was Oklahoma. Who does do it for their 6A class.

Since this has warped into a discussion of just everyone making the playoffs regardless of split, Indiana's is setup in a similar manner. If there's too many teams in the six classes either they'd need to add another class or restrict participation. However, they're pretty happy with their tournament. it's an open blind-seed tournament. You have the regular season and then you have the tournament. it's not seen as a playoff the way most states do it. It's just another part of your season. Everyone plays at least one game, you can play anyone home or away in that first round. And home field isn't a thing.

Another oddball is Illinois.

In Illinois, not everyone makes the playoffs, but the classes (8 of them) aren't decided until the regular season is over. Any team with 6 wins is automatically in the playoffs. The league schedules vary throughout the state. If you win six games, regardless of against who, you qualify for the playoffs. I believe there's a provision for letting in 5win teams to fill in the roster). The 1/8th largest schools become 8A, next 1/8th is 7A, etc. So, your class isn't set until after the season. So, no complaining about being the small team in a class or large team, because you don't even know until the roster of participants is set to see where the dividing lines are placed.

 

[The Dock]

At the time girls tennis only had one division due to their being less member schools with a team. Some schools included any interested girls on their boys team, rather than field a girls team with only 2 or 3 girls.

Basic math and critical thinking tells you why schools do this. And no, it is not because of the postseason tournament.

 

[chs1971]

So you are aware of the rule on how many matches one player can play in a day, correct?
Having more than 32 singles players would have meant that it would have required an additional day to play all the matches due to the rule. I can dig up a copy of the draw from when I played if you would like to see.
I know the OTCA tournament included all 7 varsity players on a team, but this tournament was by invitation if I am not mistaken. I wouldn't be surprised if they have since added another day to sectionals to facilitate the participation of all players from each team. The other limiting factor was availability of indoor courts at the time (for inclimate weather) which often were shared with universities and members. Perhaps more indoor courts have since become available as well in the time since I played. Though many local tennis centres have since converted or removed courts or closed entirely.

THE OHSAA and OTCA tournaments are two different things.

The OTCA tournament does not include all schools.

Invitation? Then it was not the OHSAA sectional tournament.

 

[simkon]

THE OHSAA and OTCA tournaments are two different things.

The OTCA tournament does not include all schools.

Invitation? Then it was not the OHSAA sectional tournament.

I am just saying the OTCA used all 7 varisty players at the time if you were invited. The OHSAA tournament did not allow for all 7 varsity members to participate at that time, the draws were capped at 32 singles players and 16 doubles teams for sectionals. I am not sure if this varied between sectionals, I just know what was the case in my section. From each sectional the top 4 singles players and top 4 doubles teams advanced to one of 4 regional tournaments, with the draws consisting of 16 singles players and 16 doubles teams. With again the top 4 in each regional advancing to the state tournament for 16 singles players and 16 doubles teams.

The only thing I can guess is maybe my section was the only one forced to limit participation. I know we had like 20+ teams in our section, and a limited availability of indoor courts in the event of inclimate weather. I think some sections had much fewer teams/participants (8 or fewer teams), especially in less densely populated/rural/mountainous areas of Ohio.

As I said before I can dig up a copy of the draw if you would like to see, just let me know.

 

[Stirred not Shaken]

I can. Conference titles don't mean ANYTHING anymore, especially since 1999's playoff expansion (conference titles obviously meant more when the playoffs weren't nearly as accessible). The kids don't give 2 cents worth of monkey crap about them; all they care about is the state playoffs. The only people those matter to are the lifers who don't understand their obsolescence, and message board geniuses like us.

LOL, wrong I can't speak for the rest of the state but in this area league title is very important.

 

[bob99]

I can. Conference titles don't mean ANYTHING anymore, especially since 1999's playoff expansion (conference titles obviously meant more when the playoffs weren't nearly as accessible). The kids don't give 2 cents worth of monkey crap about them; all they care about is the state playoffs. The only people those matter to are the lifers who don't understand their obsolescence, and message board geniuses like us.

Most schools realize that winning a state championship is very limited. Winning a conference championship is a more realistic goal and is attainable to more schools. Yes it is still a big deal to most schools. The school I graduated from and the school of the town I now live in have never won a state championship in football. A league title is a big deal to both of them.

 

[chs1971]

I am just saying the OTCA used all 7 varisty players at the time if you were invited. The OHSAA tournament did not allow for all 7 varsity members to participate at that time, the draws were capped at 32 singles players and 16 doubles teams for sectionals. I am not sure if this varied between sectionals, I just know what was the case in my section. From each sectional the top 4 singles players and top 4 doubles teams advanced to one of 4 regional tournaments, with the draws consisting of 16 singles players and 16 doubles teams. With again the top 4 in each regional advancing to the state tournament for 16 singles players and 16 doubles teams.

The only thing I can guess is maybe my section was the only one forced to limit participation. I know we had like 20+ teams in our section, and a limited availability of indoor courts in the event of inclimate weather. I think some sections had much fewer teams/participants (8 or fewer teams), especially in less densely populated/rural/mountainous areas of Ohio.

As I said before I can dig up a copy of the draw if you would like to see, just let me know.

The OTC tournament is a team tournament, You play a dual match and advance if you win, and it's not an invitational.

What you say about your sectional may be true, but I've never heard of such a thing.

 

[reganaustinjames]

I can assure that the school I work at and where friends work the players care very much about league titles and awards.

Just today I was sitting with the AD when a CC runner asked why the league championship banner wasn't up in the gym yet. The league track meet is a big deal, so is wrestling. Baseball's #1 goal is to win the league. etc.

Ok, so league titles may have some importance in other sports, particularly where individual competitions are involved (obviously, the kid who wins the 200m at the league track meet and the wrestler who wins the 155 lb class at the league tournament are going to care about those). Conference titles sure as hell don't mean a thing in football.

 

[simkon]

The OTC tournament is a team tournament, You play a dual match and advance if you win, and it's not an invitational.

What you say about your sectional may be true, but I've never heard of such a thing.

The OTCA tournament did not include all teams and I know that for a fact. Only the better teams participated.

I checked with a few people and the story I got from them is that sectionals had to be completed in 2 days, and the OHSAA had a rule that limited how many matches you could play in one day which effectively capped the draws at 32 players to be able to fit it into 2 days. Most sections at the time did not have more than 32 players anyways, the tournament could accommodate 11 teams less one player. Most sections did not have more than 10 member teams at that time, in fact most sectional tournaments had about 8 teams. However some sections in D-I & D-II in the Cleveland, Akron/Canton and Youngstown areas had 15+ teams (including a high of 22 one year in the Boardman sectional), thereby forcing the seeding by coaches to determine who could and couldn't participate.

 

[chs1971]

The OTCA tournament did not include all teams and I know that for a fact. Only the better teams participated.

Sort of. The coach has to be a member of the OTCA and he has to register his team. I'm pretty sure less than half of all tennis teams are involved.

I checked with a few people and the story I got from them is that sectionals had to be completed in 2 days, and the OHSAA had a rule that limited how many matches you could play in one day which effectively capped the draws at 32 players to be able to fit it into 2 days. Most sections at the time did not have more than 32 players anyways, the tournament could accommodate 11 teams less one player. Most sections did not have more than 10 member teams at that time, in fact most sectional tournaments had about 8 teams. However some sections in D-I & D-II in the Cleveland, Akron/Canton and Youngstown areas had 15+ teams (including a high of 22 one year in the Boardman sectional), thereby forcing the seeding by coaches to determine who could and couldn't participate.

I can believe that. I know that there were a lot more HS tennis teams in that part of the state. Seems like it could have been handled a better way.

 

[simkon]

Sort of. The coach has to be a member of the OTCA and he has to register his team. I'm pretty sure less than half of all tennis teams are involved.
I can believe that. I know that there were a lot more HS tennis teams in that part of the state. Seems like it could have been handled a better way.

I think that they now have up to 64 boys in the singles draw, with the top seeds recieving byes into the 2nd round/round of 32.

What would have been the best way to handle that Boardman sectional with 66 boys for singles and 44 boys for doubles (22 teams) in your opinion? With the constraint that the Boardman Tennis Center had to accommodate YSU, so no additional days could be utilized before or after the 2 scheduled days.

 

[chs1971]

I think that they now have up to 64 boys in the singles draw, with the top seeds recieving byes into the 2nd round/round of 32.

What would have been the best way to handle that Boardman sectional with 66 boys for singles and 44 boys for doubles (22 teams) in your opinion? With the constraint that the Boardman Tennis Center had to accommodate YSU, so no additional days could be utilized before or after the 2 scheduled days.

Split into two sectionals, or a preliminary round.

 

[simkon]

Split into two sectionals, or a preliminary round.

So if you split into 2 sectionals then you have a problem with regionals, you have 20 boys now instead of 16 for singles, which is the max allowed for regionals, you have 4 qualifiers from each sectional to make up a regional. Adding a preliminary round adds a day to sectionals, because of OHSAA rules, which also only allowed for 2 days to complete sectional play, but even if they allowed the 3rd day the venue had to also accommodate YSU and the members of the club.

 

[serpico]

Ok, so league titles may have some importance in other sports, particularly where individual competitions are involved (obviously, the kid who wins the 200m at the league track meet and the wrestler who wins the 155 lb class at the league tournament are going to care about those). Conference titles sure as hell don't mean a thing in football.

I guess we could go full nihilist and say state titles don’t mean anything either, but that’d be silly, like the loon from Massillon that says all they’re playing for is a cheap trophy. I mean, you’re the guy that said kids these days don’t even know which teams are in their own conference, right? Maybe in your very small section of the state conference titles don’t mean anything, but to plenty of people (including, or maybe especially the kids), they do.

 

[chs1971]

So if you split into 2 sectionals then you have a problem with regionals, you have 20 boys now instead of 16 for singles, which is the max allowed for regionals, you have 4 qualifiers from each sectional to make up a regional. Adding a preliminary round adds a day to sectionals, because of OHSAA rules, which also only allowed for 2 days to complete sectional play, but even if they allowed the 3rd day the venue had to also accommodate YSU and the members of the club.

There are no regionals. It's Sectional, District, State.

Sectional & District tournaments are run by the District. They could have more than 16 qualify for the district tournament if they wanted to.

There is no OHSAA rule that sectionals must be completed in 2 days. It might have been the NE District plan, or the wishes of the schools involved, but it is for sure not an OHSAA regulation of any kind.

Because of rain, one year it took 5 days to complete our sectional.

 

[simkon]

There are no regionals. It's Sectional, District, State.

Sectional & District tournaments are run by the District. They could have more than 16 qualify for the district tournament if they wanted to.

There is no OHSAA rule that sectionals must be completed in 2 days. It might have been the NE District plan, or the wishes of the schools involved, but it is for sure not an OHSAA regulation of any kind.

Because of rain, one year it took 5 days to complete our sectional.

So then the obvious answer is the member schools wished to have it completed in 2 days if possible. Either way we only had 2 days due to scheduling conflicts with YSU for the courts.

Have you seen any district boys singles tournaments with more than 16 boys? I have not myself personally but perhaps you have?

 

[krazylegz]

In all honesty,how many of the teams that are 4-6 or worse are just ready to hang it up anyways after the season?..sure,MAYBE some seniors would want to play another game or two, but why water down the sport even more? They do have every team in the state I live in,Oregon, participate in the postseason,but that's because there are a 1/4 of the schools,and even here it seems silly.

 

[scbuckeye99]

I knew there was at least another state that did it, but couldn't think of it. Also, the state I was thinking was Oklahoma. Who does do it for their 6A class.

Since this has warped into a discussion of just everyone making the playoffs regardless of split, Indiana's is setup in a similar manner. If there's too many teams in the six classes either they'd need to add another class or restrict participation. However, they're pretty happy with their tournament. it's an open blind-seed tournament. You have the regular season and then you have the tournament. it's not seen as a playoff the way most states do it. It's just another part of your season. Everyone plays at least one game, you can play anyone home or away in that first round. And home field isn't a thing.

Another oddball is Illinois.

In Illinois, not everyone makes the playoffs, but the classes (8 of them) aren't decided until the regular season is over. Any team with 6 wins is automatically in the playoffs. The league schedules vary throughout the state. If you win six games, regardless of against who, you qualify for the playoffs. I believe there's a provision for letting in 5win teams to fill in the roster). The 1/8th largest schools become 8A, next 1/8th is 7A, etc. So, your class isn't set until after the season. So, no complaining about being the small team in a class or large team, because you don't even know until the roster of participants is set to see where the dividing lines are placed.

The SCHSL did away with the separate playoff system within classifications once we went to a 5 class system back in 2015. Now, each class has roughly 40 schools in it with 32 making the playoffs. It's always been pretty easy to make the playoffs down here in SC but now roughly 80% of those schools fielding football teams make the playoffs every year.