OHSAA does not allow kids to play 7on7

[Spartacus1987]

80% may be a little low to be honest. I'd argue 80% come not within that circle but Georgia specifically. Probably more like 90% within the circle.

Some may argue that raw numbers could play a role as well. Atlanta and it's metro area is / has been booming for quite some time. All the kids playing ball now are the product of the mass migration to the Atlanta metro area pre- and post- 1996 Olympics.

I wasn't trying to make the guy look too bad but yes I agree. Georgia as a state is an absolute powerhouse now and I enjoy going to see the big high school games there. On College Sports Sunday one episode Tom Luginbill made a statement and I think I agree that Georgia has become per capita the second best state for football talent in the country. The type of talent he said that grows there is just out of this world. He said they are ahead of California and Texas now.

Not only is Georgia filled with absolute freaks of nature but they are also playing 7 on 7 plus spring ball. Ohio will not only never catch Georgia in regards to producing players like it used to but it will never again be in Georgia's stratosphere overall.

 

[winbypin]

Yes, he's done great. Not saying kids can't do well without 7 v 7 or spring football, what I'm saying is that it would help them develop that much better/faster while in high school. Ohio kids are much farther behind in development than the southern states. As good as Burrow is he did not come into his own until his 5th year in college.

A few things...like 5% or less will go to college and play football. Especially a big time program. So the idea that 7v7 or spring football is going to help high school players get ready for college is really for a very few players then. The goal of high school football, or any high school sport, is not to get them ready for college athletics. Spring/7v7 isn't going to make the % that play in college change. Are you under the assumption that a higher percentage of southern kids are playing in college? Or Ohio has a lower % playing?

Burrow got stuck behind Barrett and then a broken bone in his throwing hand moved him further down the depth chart. He was smart enough to realize he wasn't going to play at OSU. He pretty much made an immediate impact when given the chance at one of those SEC schools amongst all the kids that played 7v7/spring ball.

The players worthy of playing college will get there if they want to. And with the transfer portal the way it is...they can move to bigger programs too. 7v7 isn't going to make Ohio State or other non-southern schools win more national championships.

All that said, if kids want to play 7v7 as some sort of AAU/travel club/local rec thing, I think they should be able to.

 

[Head Linesman]

I wasn't trying to make the guy look too bad but yes I agree. Georgia as a state is an absolute powerhouse now and I enjoy going to see the big high school games there. On College Sports Sunday one episode Tom Luginbill made a statement and I think I agree that Georgia has become per capita the second best state for football talent in the country. The type of talent he said that grows there is just out of this world. He said they are ahead of California and Texas now.

Not only is Georgia filled with absolute freaks of nature but they are also playing 7 on 7 plus spring ball. Ohio will not only never catch Georgia in regards to producing players like it used to but it will never again be in Georgia's stratosphere overall.

um it doesn't take a genius to figure out why.

but your use of the phrase "freaks of nature" is problematic.

Georgia isn't filled with freaks of nature it is filled with the descendants of selectively reproduced forced immigrant laborers.

 

[Spartacus1987]

um it doesn't take a genius to figure out why.

but your use of the phrase "freaks of nature" is problematic.

Georgia isn't filled with freaks of nature it is filled with the descendants of selectively reproduced forced immigrant laborers.

LOL, yes I couldn’t agree more and you are correct! I’ve made mention of this before and was labeled a racist…..

The black athlete abundance that Georgia has doesn’t exist in Ohio, at least not since most black people have moved back to the south since the 80s.

 

[Head Linesman]

LOL, yes I couldn’t agree more and you are correct! I’ve made mention of this before and was labeled a racist…..

The black athlete abundance that Georgia has doesn’t exist in Ohio, at least not since most black people have moved back to the south since the 80s.

well, one has to choose one's words very carefully so as not to be misinterpreted.

the historical fact is that the forced immigrant labor force was selected for the strongest, healthiest, etc,

the best teeth even. it's not racist to understand artificial selection for desired traits no matter what species is being referred to.

high intelligence was also a desired trait.

 

[TexasFanFromOhio]

....what just happened....

 

[Head Linesman]

....what just happened....

reality just happened.

 

[Spartacus1987]

A few things...like 5% or less will go to college and play football. Especially a big time program. So the idea that 7v7 or spring football is going to help high school players get ready for college is really for a very few players then. The goal of high school football, or any high school sport, is not to get them ready for college athletics. Spring/7v7 isn't going to make the % that play in college change. Are you under the assumption that a higher percentage of southern kids are playing in college? Or Ohio has a lower % playing?

Burrow got stuck behind Barrett and then a broken bone in his throwing hand moved him further down the depth chart. He was smart enough to realize he wasn't going to play at OSU. He pretty much made an immediate impact when given the chance at one of those SEC schools amongst all the kids that played 7v7/spring ball.

The players worthy of playing college will get there if they want to. And with the transfer portal the way it is...they can move to bigger programs too. 7v7 isn't going to make Ohio State or other non-southern schools win more national championships.

All that said, if kids want to play 7v7 as some sort of AAU/travel club/local rec thing, I think they should be able to.

I think you should listen to this podcast. It was long but very informative

some quick highlights -
20 years ago there were 160-170 division 1 caliber players in Ohio and today it’s gone down to 90

kids should have the option to be able to choose spring football, 7 v 7 or another spring sport

if they want to do both then the coaches should figure out a way for these kids to be able to play multiple sports at once.

7 v 7 isn’t real football but it exposes kids in Ohio to much higher skilled players around the country giving them better competition and exposure for themselves to college coaches

If we really care about the kids then we should be giving them as many opportunities possible to get to college on scholarship. Between 2002 and now there are on average 70 less kids getting full rides from Ohio to play football

Scoop LIVE: Bill "The Bank" Greene Talks Davison Inbinosun

www.youtube.com

 

[scbuckeye99]

I wasn't trying to make the guy look too bad but yes I agree. Georgia as a state is an absolute powerhouse now and I enjoy going to see the big high school games there. On College Sports Sunday one episode Tom Luginbill made a statement and I think I agree that Georgia has become per capita the second best state for football talent in the country. The type of talent he said that grows there is just out of this world. He said they are ahead of California and Texas now.

Not only is Georgia filled with absolute freaks of nature but they are also playing 7 on 7 plus spring ball. Ohio will not only never catch Georgia in regards to producing players like it used to but it will never again be in Georgia's stratosphere overall.

To be fair though, a lot of SEC states play spring ball and are not on the same level as a UGA or a Bama, etc... I've lived in SC since 2004. We have spring ball for 15 days in May each year. Would taking that away make the quality better or worse in SC? Couldn't tell ya. SC is certainly no GA, nor Florida or Texas, etc... when it comes to talent at the high school levels. So is spring ball playing as a big a role in the development of their athletes? The evidence would suggest no. Not suggesting we eliminate it but if spring ball were a "cure all" then both Clemson and USC would be on the board at the same time. In most years it's either one or the other (lately Clemson on a national level).

As far as UGA is concerned I'd be curious as to how long they've had spring ball at the HS level and why just now are they nationally relevant? If they've had it all this time then it must be something else. Maybe Richt just didn't recruit the state well. I mean you and I have already pointed out that Smart recruits the state VERY well and his neighbors to the south and west well at the same time. The roster numbers don't lie. He and his staff have targeted the right areas to focus on for recruiting.

 

[CC Track Fan]

LOL, yes I couldn’t agree more and you are correct! I’ve made mention of this before and was labeled a racist…..

The black athlete abundance that Georgia has doesn’t exist in Ohio, at least not since most black people have moved back to the south since the 80s.

Add in than many black attend city public schools in Toledo, Cincy, Columbus and Cleveland that those schools/athletic programs have greatly declined and their home lives are far from ideal. IMO these are the biggest reasons for the drop in D1 talent in Ohio.

 

[Head Linesman]

I think you should listen to this podcast. It was long but very informative

some quick highlights -
20 years ago there were 160-170 division 1 caliber players in Ohio and today it’s gone down to 90

kids should have the option to be able to choose spring football, 7 v 7 or another spring sport

if they want to do both then the coaches should figure out a way for these kids to be able to play multiple sports at once.

7 v 7 isn’t real football but it exposes kids in Ohio to much higher skilled players around the country giving them better competition and exposure for themselves to college coaches

If we really care about the kids then we should be giving them as many opportunities possible to get to college on scholarship. Between 2002 and now there are on average 70 less kids getting full rides from Ohio to play football

Scoop LIVE: Bill "The Bank" Greene Talks Davison Inbinosun

www.youtube.com

it's not the mission of the Ohio education system to act as a minor leagues for the NCAA which in turn is the minor leagues for the NFL.

in my opinion it's misuse of education funds to pay for interscholastic athletic competitions which are completely unnecessary as a function of physical education. there's no educational benefit to funding interscholastic athletic competitions that cannot be realized with intramural programs. none. zero.

If the NFL wants to recruit and develop talent with 7 on 7 leagues for 14 to 18 year olds, it should fund them and form them.

and then fund and form it's own full contact minor league system for 18 years and older.

the vast majority of colleges and universities athletic departments operate at a deficit meaning that the red ink is transferred to non participating students in their tuition.

I found 18 profitable & 211 money-losing NCAA Division-I public athletic programs in 2020

[EDITED to add "Profit without FB coaching salaries." 5:24 pm, 9/3/22].

www.linkedin.com

 

[winbypin]

I think you should listen to this podcast. It was long but very informative

some quick highlights -
20 years ago there were 160-170 division 1 caliber players in Ohio and today it’s gone down to 90

kids should have the option to be able to choose spring football, 7 v 7 or another spring sport

if they want to do both then the coaches should figure out a way for these kids to be able to play multiple sports at once.

7 v 7 isn’t real football but it exposes kids in Ohio to much higher skilled players around the country giving them better competition and exposure for themselves to college coaches

If we really care about the kids then we should be giving them as many opportunities possible to get to college on scholarship. Between 2002 and now there are on average 70 less kids getting full rides from Ohio to play football

Scoop LIVE: Bill "The Bank" Greene Talks Davison Inbinosun

www.youtube.com

We have less kids in the age group that play high school football now. Less kids are also playing football in ohio. and there are less scholarships available today too I believe. But if you take the 160 number and the 90 number and divide into the number of participants....the % difference is negligible. And in both cases it's TINY compared to the number that participate. Again...you're trying to solve a problem a tiny few will benefit from.

I already have said, multiple times, that if kids want to do 7v7 they should be allowed to.

There are far great scholarship opportunities for students if they focus on their education and grades.

 

[doubtme]

We have less kids in the age group that play high school football now. Less kids are also playing football in ohio. and there are less scholarships available today too I believe. But if you take the 160 number and the 90 number and divide into the number of participants....the % difference is negligible. And in both cases it's TINY compared to the number that participate. Again...you're trying to solve a problem a tiny few will benefit from.

I already have said, multiple times, that if kids want to do 7v7 they should be allowed to.

There are far great scholarship opportunities for students if they focus on their education and grades.

 

[CedarBuck92]

it's not the mission of the Ohio education system to act as a minor leagues for the NCAA which in turn is the minor leagues for the NFL.

in my opinion it's misuse of education funds to pay for interscholastic athletic competitions which are completely unnecessary as a function of physical education. there's no educational benefit to funding interscholastic athletic competitions that cannot be realized with intramural programs. none. zero.

If the NFL wants to recruit and develop talent with 7 on 7 leagues for 14 to 18 year olds, it should fund them and form them.

and then fund and form it's own full contact minor league system for 18 years and older.

the vast majority of colleges and universities athletic departments operate at a deficit meaning that the red ink is transferred to non participating students in their tuition.

I found 18 profitable & 211 money-losing NCAA Division-I public athletic programs in 2020

[EDITED to add "Profit without FB coaching salaries." 5:24 pm, 9/3/22].

www.linkedin.com

View attachment 38453

I don't agree with you about removing interscholastic sports. However, removing all interscholastic teams and replacing with intermural teams would save a significant amount of money.

 

[Head Linesman]

I don't agree with you about removing interscholastic sports. However, removing all interscholastic teams and replacing with intermural teams would save a significant amount of money.

and all the educational wonderfuls of interscholastic competitions and teams would be available to a wider number of students.

unless you could name any that would not.

 

[Spartacus1987]

To be fair though, a lot of SEC states play spring ball and are not on the same level as a UGA or a Bama, etc... I've lived in SC since 2004. We have spring ball for 15 days in May each year. Would taking that away make the quality better or worse in SC? Couldn't tell ya. SC is certainly no GA, nor Florida or Texas, etc... when it comes to talent at the high school levels. So is spring ball playing as a big a role in the development of their athletes? The evidence would suggest no. Not suggesting we eliminate it but if spring ball were a "cure all" then both Clemson and USC would be on the board at the same time. In most years it's either one or the other (lately Clemson on a national level).

As far as UGA is concerned I'd be curious as to how long they've had spring ball at the HS level and why just now are they nationally relevant? If they've had it all this time then it must be something else. Maybe Richt just didn't recruit the state well. I mean you and I have already pointed out that Smart recruits the state VERY well and his neighbors to the south and west well at the same time. The roster numbers don't lie. He and his staff have targeted the right areas to focus on for recruiting.

Yes very true, most of the SEC is not at Bama or Georgias level because obviously Bama and Georgia are going into those other southeastern states and taking their best players. Those SEC teams are also still better than 3-14 in other conferences.

I spoke to a friend of mine who's a coach and he says that the internet has made the Southeast that much better at developing teams. The schemes and strategy that once made Ohio great is now not a secret all over the country and it's being used by places that have more practice time and better athletes.

 

[Spartacus1987]

We have less kids in the age group that play high school football now. Less kids are also playing football in ohio. and there are less scholarships available today too I believe. But if you take the 160 number and the 90 number and divide into the number of participants....the % difference is negligible. And in both cases it's TINY compared to the number that participate. Again...you're trying to solve a problem a tiny few will benefit from.

I already have said, multiple times, that if kids want to do 7v7 they should be allowed to.

There are far great scholarship opportunities for students if they focus on their education and grades.

The problem is that less kids are playing football across the country, this isn't just an Ohio thing and the best states are still putting out great talent.

 

[chs1971]

LOL, yes I couldn’t agree more and you are correct! I’ve made mention of this before and was labeled a racist…..

The black athlete abundance that Georgia has doesn’t exist in Ohio, at least not since most black people have moved back to the south since the 80s.

????????????????????????????????????????

I had no idea. So I did some research.

The reversal of the Great Migration began as a trickle in the 1970s, increased in the 1990s, and turned into a virtual evacuation from many northern areas in subsequent decades. The movement is largely driven by younger, college-educated Black Americans, from both northern and western places of origin. They have contributed to the growth of the “New South,” especially in Texas, Georgia, and North Carolina, as well as metropolitan regions such as Atlanta, Dallas, and Houston.

 

[Spartacus1987]

????????????????????????????????????????/

Since then it has been the complete opposite

The Great Migration (1910-1970)

Boys outside of the Stateway Gardens Housing Project on the South Side of Chicago, May, 1973 (NAID 556163) The Great Migration was one of the largest movements of people in United States history. Approximately six million Black people moved from the American South to Northern, Midwestern, and...

www.archives.gov

 

[winbypin]

Yes very true, most of the SEC is not at Bama or Georgias level because obviously Bama and Georgia are going into those other southeastern states and taking their best players. Those SEC teams are also still better than 3-14 in other conferences.

I spoke to a friend of mine who's a coach and he says that the internet has made the Southeast that much better at developing teams. The schemes and strategy that once made Ohio great is now not a secret all over the country and it's being used by places that have more practice time and better athletes.

The other night I looked at Georgia's roster and their roster is like 70% just from Georgia. I was surprised it was that strong.

 

[winbypin]

The problem is that less kids are playing football across the country, this isn't just an Ohio thing and the best states are still putting out great talent.

And 7v7 won't change that. Great talent will get found regardless.

 

[CC Track Fan]

 

[Spartacus1987]

The other night I looked at Georgia's roster and their roster is like 70% just from Georgia. I was surprised it was that strong.

It’s crazy to see that state become what it has. My in laws live in Gwinnett County so it’s a treat to go watch such a high level of football. Just so much different than Ohio.

 

[Spartacus1987]

View attachment 38459

Yes, I posted this earlier in the thread.

 

[CC Track Fan]

Yes, I posted this earlier in the thread.

Sorry I must have missed it. It is a very telling stat.

 

[winbypin]

It’s crazy to see that state become what it has. My in laws live in Gwinnett County so it’s a treat to go watch such a high level of football. Just so much different than Ohio.

My dad is from Georgia and I usually go to some smaller school playoffs every year after Thanksgiving with my cousin. It's fun.

And usually warmer than football up here at the same time. Lol.

 

[winbypin]

Sorry I must have missed it. It is a very telling stat.

What do you think it's telling you?

 

[chs1971]

Since then it has been the complete opposite

The Great Migration (1910-1970)

Boys outside of the Stateway Gardens Housing Project on the South Side of Chicago, May, 1973 (NAID 556163) The Great Migration was one of the largest movements of people in United States history. Approximately six million Black people moved from the American South to Northern, Midwestern, and...

www.archives.gov

Sort of. A surge north followed by a trickle south.

 

[Bidenomics]

We aren't talking the same thing here. Many basketball teams will postpone games if their team makes it into the 2nd or 3rd round of the playoffs in football.

I am saying that in most of these southern states, the state title games and matches are finishing 1st weekend of May. Spring ball in some of those states starts in late April and May. You have a better chance of getting most of your players involved in those practices and typically many of the players the almighty college coaches want to see are multiple sport athletes anyway and likely run track. So you would want them there.

Also in Ohio, we have many smaller districts than the larger county style school districts they have in southern states. There is likely less 3 sport type kids because of it. Many smaller schools, likely, some d3's but D4's and lower will struggle to get a lot of kids out for their spring practices if they are in the middle of spring sports season.

However, like I have said before, I am all for them allowing club 7v7 in the winter and spring, if they want to allow for spring football practices I would be okay with that as well. I am just trying to give reasons as to why there has been hang ups with it here in Ohio. I mean, freaking baseball is insanse with year round games and travel teams. Why not open it to football.

The question that needs to answered is this: Is HS football about catering to college football coaches or is it about the hidden curriculum things that kids get from playing the greatest team sport there is? I think that is also something the OHSAA considers... let’s be honest, until they find a way to make money on all this stuff, it won't happen.

The only rule that needs changed is the one which basically states football is considered in season 11 months of the year.

Remove it and kids could be playing 7v7 in states that border Ohio that allow it.

 

[Bidenomics]

Side Bar: love seeing West Virginia pass a purpose law which would allow kids to transfer to any high school and remain athletically eligible. Should be a nation wide rule.