Covington cancels game in 2022

I expect Covington to play this week if they have enough bodies, doubt they would cancel if they don't have to.

This is not just a football issue but a sport issue in general (not enough students going out for sports or other school activities. One of the largest if not the largest school in the MAC does not even have a JV or Frosh VB team (they do have girls' soccer), another MAC school I heard, only will have 7 girls on their bball team this year and no it is not New Knoxville or DSJ. We have a new generation called the L generation as in lazy generation, combined with some schools have too many sports just not enough athletes to go around.
 
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Stirred not Shaken said:
I expect Covington to play this week if they have enough bodies, doubt they would cancel if they don't have to.

This is not just a football issue but a sport issue in general (not enough students going out for sports or other school activities. One of the largest if not the largest school in the MAC does not even have a JV or Frosh VB team (they do have girls' soccer), another MAC school I heard, only will have 7 girls on their bball team this year and no it is not New Knoxville or DSJ. We have a new generation called the L generation as in lazy generation, combined with some schools have too many sports just not enough athletes to go around.
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Don’t blame kids for an adult problem. When I was in HS, you could go lift for football at 8am, go to open gym at noon and then play in an ACME game that night at 6pm. The off-season demands placed on kids today make this so much harder. And the coaches only have a small part to play. Instead of letting kids play in the neighborhood, parents sign them up for “travel” ball when they are 7 to play 50 coach pitch baseball games in a year or 25 soccer games where the kids are just running around. But the parents get to post pics on social media with the tag “Doing what he loves” so that makes it worth it I guess. We have much of adults helicopter parenting and organizing every minute of Johnny’s day and not letting them try new things. Then we wonder why they burn out or specialize in one sport at a ridiculously young age.

It reminds me of a Millennial’s reaction to criticism about how his generation was soft because everyone got a trophy - “who gave us the trophies?” If this is the L generation, then that’s on the adults.
 
Stirred not Shaken said:
I expect Covington to play this week if they have enough bodies, doubt they would cancel if they don't have to.

This is not just a football issue but a sport issue in general (not enough students going out for sports or other school activities. One of the largest if not the largest school in the MAC does not even have a JV or Frosh VB team (they do have girls' soccer), another MAC school I heard, only will have 7 girls on their bball team this year and no it is not New Knoxville or DSJ. We have a new generation called the L generation as in lazy generation, combined with some schools have too many sports just not enough athletes to go around.
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not a L generation. this generation of sports as a whole is better than it’s ever been
 
rocco said:
not a L generation. this generation of sports as a whole is better than it’s ever been
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Depends on how you want to look at it. Participation wise it isn't, and it's due to a combination of burning kids out at a young age, specialization, and "funneling" or squeezing out many early on due to others specializing and getting too far ahead of them.

I thought it was interesting that Stirred mentioned girls basketball in particular because it's probably the sport most ruined by specialization and funneling.
 
Stirred not Shaken said:
I expect Covington to play this week if they have enough bodies, doubt they would cancel if they don't have to.

This is not just a football issue but a sport issue in general (not enough students going out for sports or other school activities. One of the largest if not the largest school in the MAC does not even have a JV or Frosh VB team (they do have girls' soccer), another MAC school I heard, only will have 7 girls on their bball team this year and no it is not New Knoxville or DSJ. We have a new generation called the L generation as in lazy generation, combined with some schools have too many sports just not enough athletes to go around.
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Perennial small school power Mogadore has their smallest number out for football in years. Usually around 50-60, this year started with I believe 37. Now with injuries and a few no shows I think I counted 33 at recent games. Still with JV team but about 14 players. Junior high combined 7th/8th 16 I believe.
 
nwwarrior09 said:
Depends on how you want to look at it. Participation wise it isn't, and it's due to a combination of burning kids out at a young age, specialization, and "funneling" or squeezing out many early on due to others specializing and getting too far ahead of them.

I thought it was interesting that Stirred mentioned girls basketball in particular because it's probably the sport most ruined by specialization and funneling.
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bingo. i don’t think select teams should exist until middle school. rec/village sports teams through elementary school. shorter seasons. emphasize learning the fundamentals, playing as a team, and having fun. involvement from coaches in high school and middle school program. i really think that’s the recipe to keep numbers up (prevent burnout)
 
ghsknightsfan said:
bingo. i don’t think select teams should exist until middle school. rec/village sports teams through elementary school. shorter seasons. emphasize learning the fundamentals, playing as a team, and having fun. involvement from coaches in high school and middle school program. i really think that’s the recipe to keep numbers up (prevent burnout)
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I hate select/travel/AAU teams before junior high. It has gradually weakened (if not killed) a lot of rec/village leagues around here. Instead of trying and learning the basics to several different sports, a lot of kids are increasingly playing way too many games in 1-2 sports (with an extremely high game to practice ratio) while often not really mastering the fundamental basics.
 
rocco said:
not a L generation. this generation of sports as a whole is better than it’s ever been
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Agreed. The kids that ARE out for football and other sports are working harder than their parents and grandparents ever did. I've seen some of the smartest and most athletic players the last couple years that I can remember in my time. The low numbers at some programs can easily be traced back to not enough or no help from the administration, poor parent involvement, and hiring coaches that haven't evolved with their respective sport. In addition, I'd expect MU vs. Chardon to be a more competitive game than MU vs. Covington. Do with that info what you will.
 
Chardon would never play Milton, let’s get that point out there. The state-wide opinion of MU is low due to our weak league. Hell, the prognosticators are ranking Valley View above Milton and it’s solely on schedule. If Valley View needed a game, Chardon would jump on that chance. It’s all relative to opinion.
Ottawa Hills is a similar sized school and they have a winning record. I’d rather see Milton take on a Chardon though.
I do not think kids today work harder than their parents. That’s wrong in my opinion.
 
Bless Em All said:
Chardon would never play Milton, let’s get that point out there. The state-wide opinion of MU is low due to our weak league. Hell, the prognosticators are ranking Valley View above Milton and it’s solely on schedule. If Valley View needed a game, Chardon would jump on that chance. It’s all relative to opinion.
Ottawa Hills is a similar sized school and they have a winning record. I’d rather see Milton take on a Chardon though.
I do not think kids today work harder than their parents. That’s wrong in my opinion.
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I didn't mean today's kids are more diligent about taking out the trash, splitting firewood, or shoveling snow in the wintertime. I just don't think football players 40 years ago were taught the importance of working with agility ladders and studying film in the offseason. Some schools even have Jugs machines available for kids to be able to catch rockets year-round. The resources are there, and the kids that take their craft seriously are much more polished high school players than their parents and grandparents.

As far as Valley View being ranked higher than MU, I believe the eye test has something to do with that. This year's VV team looks like a D3 program on film. Very big kids. I believe MU would beat them again if they met in the playoffs. They seem to be more disciplined and more physical. Don't discount how many teams Kirtland had to embarrass before they were given the nod when playing against a team with better looking athletes. If they don't give you respect, dismantle all of the media's favorite teams until they have to pick you to win.
 
Almost Prideful said:
I didn't mean today's kids are more diligent about taking out the trash, splitting firewood, or shoveling snow in the wintertime. I just don't think football players 40 years ago were taught the importance of working with agility ladders and studying film in the offseason. Some schools even have Jugs machines available for kids to be able to catch rockets year-round. The resources are there, and the kids that take their craft seriously are much more polished high school players than their parents and grandparents.

As far as Valley View being ranked higher than MU, I believe the eye test has something to do with that. This year's VV team looks like a D3 program on film. Very big kids. I believe MU would beat them again if they met in the playoffs. They seem to be more disciplined and more physical. Don't discount how many teams Kirtland had to embarrass before they were given the nod when playing against a team with better looking athletes. If they don't give you respect, dismantle all of the media's favorite teams until they have to pick you to win.
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I get what you’re saying. Milton is pretty physically built. On screen you didnt think MU was impressive looks-wise? I believe Milton is bigger on both lines and at many positions. It’s schedule to me. Eye-test would, in my opinion, give the nod to MU.
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rocco said:
not a L generation. this generation of sports as a whole is better than it’s ever been
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Really? I am watching teams with 60 plus kids on a team lambasting team's that have 40 or less players on a team. That was not the case 20 years ago for the most part. Just look at the BVC and no. of kids they have on their football teams, this is happening in all sports.
 
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i think it’s easy to say that if you never lived the other generations. I think the past generations were just as good and maybe harder than the current generation. We were not pampered. The whole injury thing was not an issue back then. We had a kid played a game with a hip pointer vs. Versailles.
There were tremendous athletes then playing a different style of football. The kids are bigger today and more athletic but they would cower when hit by a kid from the 70s or 80s that was 6% body fat. No doubt the speed and overall athleticism is better today. Jack Tatum would do just fine in todays NFL.
 
Almost Prideful said:
Agreed. The kids that ARE out for football and other sports are working harder than their parents and grandparents ever did. I've seen some of the smartest and most athletic players the last couple years that I can remember in my time. The low numbers at some programs can easily be traced back to not enough or no help from the administration, poor parent involvement, and hiring coaches that haven't evolved with their respective sport. In addition, I'd expect MU vs. Chardon to be a more competitive game than MU vs. Covington. Do with that info what you will.
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agreed 100% facilities, training, social media, genetics and the game have evolved so much. not saying back in the day they were bad but these st iggys teams would smack almost any team from the 70s 80s 90s. but i think chardon would be great for mu
 
rocco said:
agreed 100% facilities, training, social media, genetics and the game have evolved so much. not saying back in the day they were bad but these st iggys teams would smack almost any team from the 70s 80s 90s. but i think chardon would be great for mu
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Maybe so, and in D1 where enrollments are huge participation is not a problem but D5 on down and maybe even some D4 schools it is. These smaller schools don't have a large pool to draw from like D1 schools do. Participation is dropping and not just in football but all sports.
 
The Dock said:
I actually would be interested in the theological details!
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Since you asked.

First, who are these conservative Christians who dress like its 1708 and look out of place in modern society? They were largely decendents from Switzerland and Germany who were persecuted for their faith. In 1881 the group most closely related to the Miami Valley began going by the name German Baptist Brethren. The Old Brethren, Dunkard Brethren and Old Order German Baptist Brethren (these are the horse and buggy brethren who also use tractors pulling trailers for work) all showed up in early 1920-40 splintering from the mainline Brethren over issues of telephone, radio or automobile primarily.

The theology- Each of these groups practice what they call non resistance. They are non warring (Jesus said " my kingdom is not of this world, else would my disciples fight" ) and are conscientious objectors. They also believe in keeping ones self seperate from the world and not indulging in worldly pleasures, which would include such things as television, radio, sporting events or things generally "highly esteemed among men" (sports cars, jewelry, fashionable clothing). Understand I speak in general terms as not 100% of conservative brethren practice self denial the same way. Attend basketball games at Newton, Franklin Monroe and Mississinawa Valley, Tri Village, Troy Christian and a few others and you will spot a few "Amish" in the stands.

So why isolate football from basketball or other sports?
My take on what I can find is that at one time, prior to world war 2, football was not all that popular in general in America. During WW2 or shortly after Army and Navy developed hugely successful teams. Generals made comments about the sport of football preparing officers for leading men into battle. It was a brutal physical game to many people, and the Brethren were in that number that took note of the "spirit" of the game.

In WW2 conscientious objectors were not merely excused from service to their country, but were rather assigned work on a farm, hospital or sometimes non combatant military job. If I recall this was called their 1w service. So in the minds of the Brethren leaders at that time (at least some of them), football was a sport played by people who supported the military and its warring nature. This made football lose favor to basketball and other sports.

Hope this helped as a quick synopsis of why many conservative brethren will not allow their kids to play the game for reasons other than safety.
 
D4fan said:
Since you asked.

First, who are these conservative Christians who dress like its 1708 and look out of place in modern society? They were largely decendents from Switzerland and Germany who were persecuted for their faith. In 1881 the group most closely related to the Miami Valley began going by the name German Baptist Brethren. The Old Brethren, Dunkard Brethren and Old Order German Baptist Brethren (these are the horse and buggy brethren who also use tractors pulling trailers for work) all showed up in early 1920-40 splintering from the mainline Brethren over issues of telephone, radio or automobile primarily.

The theology- Each of these groups practice what they call non resistance. They are non warring (Jesus said " my kingdom is not of this world, else would my disciples fight" ) and are conscientious objectors. They also believe in keeping ones self seperate from the world and not indulging in worldly pleasures, which would include such things as television, radio, sporting events or things generally "highly esteemed among men" (sports cars, jewelry, fashionable clothing). Understand I speak in general terms as not 100% of conservative brethren practice self denial the same way. Attend basketball games at Newton, Franklin Monroe and Mississinawa Valley, Tri Village, Troy Christian and a few others and you will spot a few "Amish" in the stands.

So why isolate football from basketball or other sports?
My take on what I can find is that at one time, prior to world war 2, football was not all that popular in general in America. During WW2 or shortly after Army and Navy developed hugely successful teams. Generals made comments about the sport of football preparing officers for leading men into battle. It was a brutal physical game to many people, and the Brethren were in that number that took note of the "spirit" of the game.

In WW2 conscientious objectors were not merely excused from service to their country, but were rather assigned work on a farm, hospital or sometimes non combatant military job. If I recall this was called their 1w service. So in the minds of the Brethren leaders at that time (at least some of them), football was a sport played by people who supported the military and its warring nature. This made football lose favor to basketball and other sports.

Hope this helped as a quick synopsis of why many conservative brethren will not allow their kids to play the game for reasons other than safety.
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I grew up in the Brethren Church. Our pastor was a former football assistant coach at Valley View in the 70s.
 
D4fan said:
Since you asked.

First, who are these conservative Christians who dress like its 1708 and look out of place in modern society? They were largely decendents from Switzerland and Germany who were persecuted for their faith. In 1881 the group most closely related to the Miami Valley began going by the name German Baptist Brethren. The Old Brethren, Dunkard Brethren and Old Order German Baptist Brethren (these are the horse and buggy brethren who also use tractors pulling trailers for work) all showed up in early 1920-40 splintering from the mainline Brethren over issues of telephone, radio or automobile primarily.

The theology- Each of these groups practice what they call non resistance. They are non warring (Jesus said " my kingdom is not of this world, else would my disciples fight" ) and are conscientious objectors. They also believe in keeping ones self seperate from the world and not indulging in worldly pleasures, which would include such things as television, radio, sporting events or things generally "highly esteemed among men" (sports cars, jewelry, fashionable clothing). Understand I speak in general terms as not 100% of conservative brethren practice self denial the same way. Attend basketball games at Newton, Franklin Monroe and Mississinawa Valley, Tri Village, Troy Christian and a few others and you will spot a few "Amish" in the stands.

So why isolate football from basketball or other sports?
My take on what I can find is that at one time, prior to world war 2, football was not all that popular in general in America. During WW2 or shortly after Army and Navy developed hugely successful teams. Generals made comments about the sport of football preparing officers for leading men into battle. It was a brutal physical game to many people, and the Brethren were in that number that took note of the "spirit" of the game.

In WW2 conscientious objectors were not merely excused from service to their country, but were rather assigned work on a farm, hospital or sometimes non combatant military job. If I recall this was called their 1w service. So in the minds of the Brethren leaders at that time (at least some of them), football was a sport played by people who supported the military and its warring nature. This made football lose favor to basketball and other sports.

Hope this helped as a quick synopsis of why many conservative brethren will not allow their kids to play the game for reasons other than safety.
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Excellent synopsis and great analysis.

As to the point about WW2 and football - this is very accurate. It was a general (I cannot remember which one) who wanted a way to burn off some of the excess testosterone of the trainee soldiers and football was suggested. Almost over night, each branch and almost each station/post had a team form. In fact, Paul Brown got his start as coach of a Naval team in Chicago. It helped the sport grow immensely in that period and the post-war one as you posit.
 
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