actuallly i think out NO discipline in their offense led to them losing in the closing moments of most of those games.. including the ORU game.... but with Young in the game against ORU, i think they win that game going away...
2020-2021 OHIO STATE BASKETBALL
- Thread starter Raymo
- Start date
nwwarrior09
Well-known member
Can't be used as an excuse, but fatigue IMO was probably the biggest factor in the majority of their losses down the stretch. The majority of their starting five (Liddell, Seuing and Young) has been dinged up and limited outside of games for weeks.
Going forward, they need to get to a place where Washington is playing off the ball more in those situations. He's their best scorer and the guy they need taking the big shots, but his decision making is awful at times when left to create on his own.
y2h
Well-known member
Washington and Liddell are gone.
y2h
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Yeah how ridiculous your expectations have to be to expect to beat a 15 seed...
First round loss to a 15...clearly trending up.
y2h
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And then lost to a 13 seed...
y2h
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Losing streak going into the postseason, lose to a 15 seed....nothing to see here.
y2h
Well-known member
They are getting paid next year, theyd be fools to come back.
nwwarrior09
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y2h
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Of course they are. 2nd rounders get paid too.
nwwarrior09
Well-known member
I don't know if either of these guys would be on very many top-100 boards. They aren't getting drafted. That's delusional.
Second round a large chunk of the picks are foreigners that teams intend to keep overseas or low ceiling guys that are expected to make an immediate impact off the bench. That's neither of these two.
nwwarrior09
Well-known member
I don't think there's any advantage to getting a jump start on a European career as the pro game over there tends to be very high I.Q. and extremely physical. Younger players, even those that have real NBA potential, usually seem to struggle to see the floor if they're playing in a good league.
You're better off being a 4-5 year college guy that continues to get experience and continues to get physically stronger before heading over there.
You're better off being a 4-5 year college guy that continues to get experience and continues to get physically stronger before heading over there.
y2h
Well-known member
NBA
y2h
Well-known member
You can ask them for one when they get drafted.
Stirred not Shaken
Well-known member
Both DW and Liddell are fringe 2nd rd picks, just on the outside. However you never know what is in the mind of a 20 or 21 year old, Maybe they don't like school or want to get paid to practice ( Europe or Japan ). If Liddell leaves it is a huge blow, no inside presence at all for OSU, if DW leaves also a big blow but not as serious as Liddell leaving. If both leave you can forget OSU bball being relevant for several years, once again Holtmann needs to up his game in recruiting, oh I forgot its Matta's fault. Hopefully both stay but it would not surprise me if one or both leave, one constant in OSU bball the last several years is nothing stays constant for a better lack of words.
wolves82
Well-known member
Dude you are not smart enough on a Sunday evening to see Monday coming.
Illinois, Texas, Purdue, North Carolina, Michigan State are all out of the tourney early also. Duke and Kentucky did not even get in. Should they fire their coaches also? Or should reasonable people realize that upsets happen, and sometimes 20 year old kids have bad days?
nwwarrior09
Well-known member
I'm tired of hearing about Thad Matta. He was a great coach for a long time and a great guy, but he had to go. Having him coach from a stool in practice while the assistants run the show was not any viable short or long term strategy. There's a reason no one has hired him in the past four years, and if you don't understand it by now, you are beyond being helped.
This is Chris Holtmann's program now and he gets to own all of the good and bad that comes with it, including not having his marginally tournament experienced team prepared for a first round game against a low seed. It's his fault and he's been owning it. Overall I thought he did a good job this year given the talent on the roster, but in part that speaks to him needing to recruit better players. Offensively for spacing I don't think he cares much for having a true center, but in the Big Ten that's tough to get away with defensively. There has to be some balance there, and if he'd like to stay off the hot seat in the coming years, that's something he'll have to adjust strategy and recruiting around.
This is Chris Holtmann's program now and he gets to own all of the good and bad that comes with it, including not having his marginally tournament experienced team prepared for a first round game against a low seed. It's his fault and he's been owning it. Overall I thought he did a good job this year given the talent on the roster, but in part that speaks to him needing to recruit better players. Offensively for spacing I don't think he cares much for having a true center, but in the Big Ten that's tough to get away with defensively. There has to be some balance there, and if he'd like to stay off the hot seat in the coming years, that's something he'll have to adjust strategy and recruiting around.
Stirred not Shaken
Well-known member
LOL you and the other Holtmann apologist keep blaming Matta for Holtmann's shortcomings because he supposedly left the cupboard bare.
This I agree 100 %, enough of the 4 year projects, recruit players like Oden, Conley, Turner, KBD, these are the type of players you win championships with, other than Liddell and maybe Washington Holtmann's recruiting has sucked and Etzler and Branham from what I saw of him yesterday ( maybe he just felt like he did not have to insert himself offensively yesterday ) are not going to make immediate impacts. Holtmann reminds me too much of another Eldon Miller.
yep
nwwarrior09
Well-known member
It was pretty bare outside of Bates-Diop and Tate, and Bates-Diop wasn't a big time scorer until his last year with Holtmann. That doesn't matter at this point. It's all Holtmann's guys for better and worse now.
Regardless, my angle has always been that they pretty much had to get rid of Thad. He wasn't capable of doing the day-to-day job any more at the level he was elite at, and he didn't have anyone as good as Archie or Boals around him any more to make up for it. If health wasn't a legitimate problem, he would be coaching somewhere else by now as a number of Power 5 programs such as Georgia, Penn State and Wake Forest have reached out to him over the last few years.
Recruiting needs to be better, but between G-League and overseas I think it's getting to the point it will be nearly impossible to get somebody like Oden or Conley again that's a top 5-10 national prospect. In-state talent has been way down since the 2016 class, but starting with Branham there are a few higher rated recruits on the horizon. They've been taking too many lower rated guys the last few years. Even if there's only one top-60 or top-80 kid to be had in Ohio, you should be able to raid Indiana, Michigan and Illinois for a couple top-100 four star players to fill out a class. They shouldn't be leaving that footprint to get a lower rated kid like Eugene Brown or Zed Key from outside the region.
nwwarrior09
Well-known member
As an aside, the biggest recruiting pain and probably the only transfer that has hurt in the Holtmann era has been losing Carton. In the era we seem to be entering where there are legit pro options after high school that's the type of multi-year kid you need to get, somebody that's a top 30-40 recruit that will probably be a 3-4 year college player. Evan Turner and Bates-Diop were also in that top 30-40 sweet spot.
Carton would have helped a ton this year and would have kept Washington playing off the ball in key situations.
Carton would have helped a ton this year and would have kept Washington playing off the ball in key situations.
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y2h
Well-known member
Do you see the garbage that gets drafted every year? To suggest some team wouldn't draft these guys is foolish. The argument isn't if they are ready, it's why would they waste another year in college when they can get paid. Guys come out who arent ready all the time.
y2h
Well-known member
The
The talent on the roster is a direct reflection on him. No GM to blame.
nwwarrior09
Well-known member
I'd actually agree with this. I think talent development has been pretty good, but they've been bringing in a few too many lower rated guys that are probably on par with what you'd be happy with getting at Butler or a similar non-Power 5 basketball school. You can get good recruits that will predictably be multi-year players, and this staff needs to do a better job of finding them in the core Big Ten midwestern footprint.
The incoming class is a little bit better between Branham and Johnson who enrolled early. Next year has a couple kids in the top 50-60. That trend needs to stick and there needs to be fewer guys in the 120-160 range going forward, although I'm glad they identified Duane Washington in that range.
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nwwarrior09
Well-known member
Looking back, hopefully there is another In-state class like 2016 soon. Four guys were top-50 in that group. Towns was ranked 125th nationally and he was only the 9th highest rated guy in-state. The last four classes he would have been one of the top-3 recruits in Ohio.
wolves82
Well-known member
Bates-Diop was a 2nd rounder. Duane and E.J are definitely not on the level KBD was when he left OSU. There are only 2 rounds. Will Buford, Jon Diebler and Kaleb Wesson were not draft worthy. You can do the math.
Both could get there. But as a 6'7" power player, E.J. has an uphill road. I love the kid, would have him on my college team every day of the week. But he will need to improve his outside shot to have a chance in the NBA.
As for Duane, he is not good enough in the ball handling/passing department to be a point guard in the NBA, and he isn't big enough to be anything else. He could get there with work.