2019-20 Ohio State Basketball

For all of you in despair about the 11th-ranked Buckeyes, and their struggling offense:

Don;t hold this team to your football expectations. This team is not nearly as talented as many teams in the Big 10, let alone the national "big boys". The only highly regarded recruits we have are Carton and Liddell, who are freshman with a lot to learn. The 2 previous years under Holtman the team won games and made the tournament based on hard-nosed defense, unselfish offense, and pure grit / hard-work. This team has the same hard-work mentality, but will have games where the shots don't fall, especially as the other good teams in the Big 10 crank up their defensive effort.

Simple conclusion:
Defense is the constant. When the outside shots are falling, OSU will blow out teams like they did Villanova, UNC, and Penn State. When the shots aren't falling, they will be close, gritty games where we win or lose down the stretch, like Minn, Wisc and Kentucky.

If we have more good shooting nights than not, OSU can go 12-6 in the conference. If most nights are off-nights in terms of shooting, 9-9 is a possibility. Sorry for the reality check, but I thought the pre-season ranking of 17th was pretty generous. This roster looks to me like a top 25 team, and since Holtman usually gets more from less, they could be top 15-20.

This would actually be awesome, to be a 4 or 5 seed in the tourney, with many of the best players so young, and another good recruiting class on the way. Holtman has the program trending up, up, up.
 
Yes, when this team was ranked in top 5 it was crazy.....team is better than last season but still no size and very young. They need freshmen Carton and Liddell to step up quickly here and help Kaleb Wesson and the soph guards. Really would be nice if Gaffney would get some court time as he is another 6-10 athlete but not seeing the court at all. Holtman must not trust him on defense yet but it could lead to Gaffney transferring real soon. Good news is no dominant team in NCAA at this point so a 4 or 5 seed has a shot. Sparty looks like the best team in the B1G again this year after they struggled some early this year. Winston/Tillman the best combo in the league. Maryland very good as well. Probably 8-10 NCAA tourney teams in B1G this year too.
 
OSU can't shoot worth a lick and if you can't score you are not going to win. Also block out and rebound. This is basically the same team from last tear and was picked 3rd in the BIG pre season polls. OSU should be better than this, fortunately their is still time to turn things around.
 
Everyone is totally correct.

But, when do we win again? Team is a mess right now. Looks lost at times. Offense is very stagnant. Too many guys pick up their dribble with no idea what they are going to do next.

To go from looknig incapable of losing to looking incapable of winning is amazing in such a short period of time.

What am I missing- Luthor needs to sit awhile.
 
Anyone with eyes and basketball knowledge knew last night was likely an "L" before the game started. Maryland is one of the most physically talented teams in the Big Ten, they have a 4-year starter at PG (Cowan) who is all-league, and they were at home. Honestly when I reviewed the schedule at the start of the season, I was expecting us to lose 2 or all 3 of the games with Nova, UNC and UK. And I figured we would be 2-2 in the league at this point, with road losses at Minny and Maryland. So the WVU and Wisc losses are the disappointing ones for me.

We definitely have issues on offense, and it starts with poor passing and decision-making. We need the lineup to constantly be a blend of offensive and defensive oriented players. IMO, here is how they break down:

Offensive: Kaleb, Carton, Washington
Defensive: Andre, Young, Mohammed, Gaffney
Blend: Walker, Liddell

Once Kyle Young is back, I would start Kaleb, Andre, Young, Carton, Walker. I like having both PGs on the floor together, and we have a little bigger lineup on the floor with the 3 veterans. I love Washington as instant offense off the bench. Luther would be the perimeter defensive spark off the bench.

As we rotate guys in, follow these rules:
- never have Andre, Young, and Mohammed on the floor together - not enough offense on the floor
- never have Washington, Carton, Walker on the floor together, it is too small and not enough defense
- Liddell needs 20 minutes a game off the bench - kid will be a special player, just needs to learn
- Carton needs 25-30 minutes a game - also will be special

Bottom line - minus the Wessons, all the key guys are young. The early big wins gave some false expectations, but we are about where I thought we'd be. Keep developing the young guys, and we need to figure out the offense. I'd still say 11-7 in the Big Ten feels about right.
 
Once again, I'm a bit lost here - don't they play 20 in the league. I show them with 16 more league games. They are 1-3. To go 10-10 would be 9-7 the rest of the way Gotta go to Sparty, Iowa, Wisc., Mich., and Penn. St. Right now they will lose all five of these. 9-2 in all of the others for that 10-10.

Need Kyle back and his throw back game. I have always liked how he plays.
 
Bevo said:
Once again, I'm a bit lost here - don't they play 20 in the league. I show them with 16 more league games. They are 1-3. To go 10-10 would be 9-7 the rest of the way Gotta go to Sparty, Iowa, Wisc., Mich., and Penn. St. Right now they will lose all five of these. 9-2 in all of the others for that 10-10.

Need Kyle back and his throw back game. I have always liked how he plays.
Click to expand...

my bad - historically it was always 18 league games - you are correct. While every road game will be tough, the Bucks will win 1-2 of the ones you list as automatic losses, and they probably lose 1-2 we expect them to win. I'd guess 11-9 or 12-8 in league is very attainable.
 
wolves82 said:
my bad - historically it was always 18 league games - you are correct. While every road game will be tough, the Bucks will win 1-2 of the ones you list as automatic losses, and they probably lose 1-2 we expect them to win. I'd guess 11-9 or 12-8 in league is very attainable.
Click to expand...
Yay OSU 12 - 8, I have higher expectations for Buckeye bball than that and I am sure Gene Smith does, esp. considering what he is paying Holtmann and what he paid Butler for Holtmann's buyout. BTW this is a list of the highest paid coaches :https://www.cnbc.com/2019/03/08/the-10-highest-paid-ncaa-basketball-coaches.html
When a coach is getting paid big bucks, big results are expected.
 
Stirred not Shaken said:
Yay OSU 12 - 8, I have higher expectations for Buckeye bball than that and I am sure Gene Smith does, esp. considering what he is paying Holtmann and what he paid Butler for Holtmann's buyout. BTW this is a list of the highest paid coaches :https://www.cnbc.com/2019/03/08/the-10-highest-paid-ncaa-basketball-coaches.html
When a coach is getting paid big bucks, big results are expected.
Click to expand...

Sorry, but this isn't football, where OSU has far and away the best talent in the league. Roster is middle of the pack at best right now. Holtman is re-building the program. He has a great freshman class this year (Carton, Liddell, Gaffney is top 2 or 3 in the league), another really good transfer that will play next year, and another great recruiting class next year.

With respect to the salaries, the devil is in the details. Gene Smith is not stupid, and would not pay him more than the football coach, Tom Izzo and Bill Self. You have to read. https://www.businessinsider.com/college-basketball-highest-paid-coaches-2018-3 "Holtman's extremely high compensation has to do with bonuses and his buyout from Butler — his annual salary is closer to $2.7 million." I guarantee you that Gene Smith is very pleased with the direction of the program.
 
Whether you include the buy out or not it is still money that OSU paid for Holtmann. This is Holtmann's 3rd year it is time for results just because OSU is a football power does not mean they shouldn't win BIG titles. In fact OSU has the 3rd most titles in the BIG with 20. Florida won back to back national titles, Gators are hardly known as a basketball school. OSU has everything a coach needs to succeed in basketball. It is all about the coach no matter the college sport, look at UCONN before and after Jim Calhoun. Saying all this I do want Holtmann to succeed because if he succeeds OSU succeeds but it is time to win, win, and win.
 
Last edited:
It blows my mind how little people actually know about college sports. Unless you're bringing in 3-5 one and done players, it takes 3-4 years to get things rolling especially when you're starting from scratch. Matta really set this team back a few years with 1) overvaluing and 2) losing the entire 2015 class. Pretty evident now only 1 was a true Big 10 level player (Lyle) and he was a head case. 2016 didn't help either. Bringing in 9 players over 2 years and only 2 will have stayed the entire time (CJ Jackson as a Juco transfer, Andre Wesson). These are the classes Holtmann should be leaning on and instead he is relying on a bunch of freshmen and sophomores who are not one and done players. If it's more of the same next year, then yeah start firing up the hot seat. Rational fans who understand the sport realize it was going to be a rough first few years. Honestly, he has exceeded my expectations knowing what they have as far as talent.
 
Orin Swift said:
It blows my mind how little people actually know about college sport.
Click to expand...
Yeah you have proven that point. Tell me again how long it took Matta to win a BIG title. Or when Meyer took over as Head Coach, what was the record the year before 6-7 I believe. Once again no one heard of UCONN before Calhoun became HC. It is all about the coach. Once again I want Holtmann to succeed because if he succeeds OSU is doing very well. Beat Indiana.
 
Posters can criticize Matta all they want but by far and away he is the best bball coach OSU has had since Fred Taylor. Remember Eldon Miller, Randy Ayers, Jim O'Brien ( actually took OSU to a FF4 ). OSU has everything for a bball coach to succeed unfortunately the Bucks have had some AD's who have made some really bad hires whether it be football or bball. From 1980 till Tressel and Matta were hired were dark ages for OSU football and bball.
 
Stirred not Shaken said:
Yeah you have proven that point.
Click to expand...

Projecting? Cute.

Tell me again how long it took Matta to win a BIG title.
Click to expand...

How many one and done players did Matta bring in his first year? Was it 3-5 like I said in my post? That isn't Holtmann's recruiting style, it's going to take a few years. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and chalk that up as not knowing Holtmann's recruiting preferences.

Or when Meyer took over as Head Coach, what was the record the year before 6-7 I believe.
Click to expand...
Ohio State recruiting class rankings nationally and in the Big 10 in the 5 recruiting classes before Urban coached a game at Ohio State:
2008 - 10th, 1st
2009 - 5th, 1st
2010 - 18th, 3rd
2011 - 6th, 1st
2012 - 5th 1st
The talent was there in 2011, the coaching was not. Urban brought the coaching. However, he doesn't go 12-0 if the previous 5 recruiting classes averaged 20th nationally and 5th in the Big 10 given they went 6-0 in 1 score games.

Once again no one heard of UCONN before Calhoun became HC.
Click to expand...

1) It took Jim Calhoun 4 years to take UConn to the NCAA tournament. 2) UConn had 13 NCAA tournament appearances, 4 Sweet 16s and an Elite 8 appearance before Jim Calhoun stepped on campus. 3) His three national championship teams featured 12 future NBA players, all but 1 averaged at least 15 minutes a game the year they won. All by 3 averaged at least 22 minutes a game. Maybe you just aren't that big of a college basketball fan?

It is all about the coach.
Click to expand...

Since you like bringing up Uconn - if it's all about the coach how did UConn win a national championship with Kevin Ollie? It's 50/50 talent and coaching.

Stirred not Shaken said:
Posters can criticize Matta all they want but by far and away he is the best bball coach OSU has had since Fred Taylor. Remember Eldon Miller, Randy Ayers, Jim O'Brien ( actually took OSU to a FF4 ). OSU has everything for a bball coach to succeed unfortunately the Bucks have had some AD's who have made some really bad hires whether it be football or bball. From 1980 till Tressel and Matta were hired were dark ages for OSU football and bball.
Click to expand...

Stop being a drama queen. No one said he's a bad coach. He just utterly botched the 2015 and 2016 classes.
 
Last edited:
Stirred not Shaken said:
Posters can criticize Matta all they want but by far and away he is the best bball coach OSU has had since Fred Taylor. Remember Eldon Miller, Randy Ayers, Jim O'Brien ( actually took OSU to a FF4 ). OSU has everything for a bball coach to succeed unfortunately the Bucks have had some AD's who have made some really bad hires whether it be football or bball. From 1980 till Tressel and Matta were hired were dark ages for OSU football and bball.
Click to expand...

I know Thad personally and think he was a GREAT coach. But he did slip the last few years as his health deteriorated, and he left the cupboard bare. If Bates-Diop had not gone from nobody to NBA draftee, Holtman's first season would have been bleak.

Holtman is in rebuild mode and doing a great job IMO, he has re-stocked the shelves pretty well, and will continue to do so.
 
The team that started the season 10 - 0 and won some big games was a lot more fun to watch than the one that has gone 2 - 4 and lost.
Every part of the game has been worse in the last 6 games.
Worse shooting
Worse passing
Worse defense
Worse rebounding
Worse hustle
The elite freshmen of today have probably played many more games against better talent than the seniors of 20 years ago.
The only consistency has been from KW, and it doesn't seem like CH can get any combination on the court to gel the last few games.
Crazy isn't it - after Olave broke off the route in the playoff game the bball squad has played mediocre.
 
A big part of the "worse defense / worse rebounding / worse hustle" is the lack of Kyle Young. His style of play leads by example. Hope he is back Saturday...
 
Orin Swift said:
Projecting? Cute.



How many one and done players did Matta bring in his first year? Was it 3-5 like I said in my post? That isn't Holtmann's recruiting style, it's going to take a few years. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and chalk that up as not knowing Holtmann's recruiting preferences.


Ohio State recruiting class rankings nationally and in the Big 10 in the 5 recruiting classes before Urban coached a game at Ohio State:
2008 - 10th, 1st
2009 - 5th, 1st
2010 - 18th, 3rd
2011 - 6th, 1st
2012 - 5th 1st
The talent was there in 2011, the coaching was not. Urban brought the coaching. However, he doesn't go 12-0 if the previous 5 recruiting classes averaged 20th nationally and 5th in the Big 10 given they went 6-0 in 1 score games.



1) It took Jim Calhoun 4 years to take UConn to the NCAA tournament. 2) UConn had 13 NCAA tournament appearances, 4 Sweet 16s and an Elite 8 appearance before Jim Calhoun stepped on campus. 3) His three national championship teams featured 12 future NBA players, all but 1 averaged at least 15 minutes a game the year they won. All by 3 averaged at least 22 minutes a game. Maybe you just aren't that big of a college basketball fan?



Since you like bringing up Uconn - if it's all about the coach how did UConn win a national championship with Kevin Ollie? It's 50/50 talent and coaching.
If it is not all about the coach why do these schools throw so much money at them.


Stop being a drama queen. No one said he's a bad coach. He just utterly botched the 2015 and 2016 classes.
Click to expand...
All you have done is bash Matta, and use him as an excuse for any and all of OSU's problems. How many years will Matta be removed and this becomes Holtmann's team completely : 5, 10 , 20 years. Drama Queen can't argue facts so call people names.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top