Ohio High school football not as powerful as once was?

Yeedoggy,Texas!Now we talking big time football!This problem hit Pa a decade or so back and it's only gotten worse.Ohios time in the bright lights is dimming.Sorry.Dang steel towns.
 
Yeedoggy,Texas!Now we talking big time football!This problem hit Pa a decade or so back and it's only gotten worse.Ohios time in the bright lights is dimming.Sorry.Dang steel towns.

St Joes, Central Catholic, and Pine-Richland are nationally prominent programs. Outside of them, it’s a pretty big drop off. LaSalle in Philly was up there a few yrs, but SJP has really taken over their League.
 
look at OSU most of the Buckeyes top skill players are from the south or California.
Yeah. The bigger school thing is BS. Those kids are just faster and better. Midwest breeds too many slow people and doesn’t create the same opportunities for everyone. Busing and the resulting white flight is the reason for Ohio football decline. There’s a massive amount of untapped and under-developed football talent in the urban areas but the racist suburbs don’t want those kinds of people in their schools. And if a private school (ie. TCC) dares to give a large number of those kids a chance for a better life and win games then the racists freak out and invent a racist scheme to punish them. Sundown town cracker burg Pickerington sucked at football. Slightly racially integrated Pickerington is pulling in a lot of the top talent that would have been going to Walnut Ridge, East, Marion Franklin, and Independence and they’ve become a state superpower with a ton of speed. But that prescription is unpalatable to most places.
 
Martinsburg in WV has basically become a prep school, they would probably beat Pick Central pretty easily
False. Who has Martisburg ever played that is the caliber of a top 20 Ohio squad let alone a state finalist. Take it from someone who watched football on a national level. Ohio football is fine and is still among the best. 20 for 20 Ohio would overwhelm California who is easily the weakest of the power football states. Texas plays a very soft brand of football and their best teams refuse to leave the state to play the better teams in the country. Florida is in the same boat as Ohio except for the talent is better overall in Florida but the teams are better in Ohio.
 
The best example of the decline of OH HS football would be a .500 X team winning state.

And this isn’t a dig at X, it’s just ReLoad/CSG is being a huge tool. I don’t care if you root for, against, or are indifferent of Elder in the Title game. These threads and comments diminishing the team and specific players are typical low class ReLoad garbage.
Ignatius is to blame for that. They were better than St X but played a horrendous 2016 title game.

As far as the national scene, the IMGs, Dematha, etc. have ruined team play. And the California schools have taken shady to another level.
 
Ignatius is to blame for that. They were better than St X but played a horrendous 2016 title game.

As far as the national scene, the IMGs, Dematha, etc. have ruined team play. And the California schools have taken shady to another level.

At least IMG is honest about what they’re doing. DeMatha, Mater Dei, Bosco, Gorman are the ones ruining HS football in their states
 
At least IMG is honest about what they’re doing. DeMatha, Mater Dei, Bosco, Gorman are the ones ruining HS football in their states
True.

I want Ignatius to drop Dematha from the schedule after this season's drubbing.
 
The best example of the decline of OH HS football would be a .500 X team winning state.

And this isn’t a dig at X, it’s just ReLoad/CSG is being a huge tool. I don’t care if you root for, against, or are indifferent of Elder in the Title game. These threads and comments diminishing the team and specific players are typical low class ReLoad garbage.
X got hot at the right time and rattled off several wins in a row. You say that it is not a dig at X but it seems like it to me since you are diminishing their accomplishments in the playoffs. Most Elder fans did not like it when Cardsfan recently said that it took Elder's best team in ten years to beat Colerain's worst team in ten years. That comment seemed to downplay Elder's accomplishments this year.
 
X got hot at the right time and rattled off several wins in a row. You say that it is not a dig at X but it seems like it to me since you are diminishing their accomplishments in the playoffs. Most Elder fans did not like it when Cardsfan recently said that it took Elder's best team in ten years to beat Colerain's worst team in ten years. That comment seemed to downplay Elder's accomplishments this year.
That was a dig at ReLoad, CincySportsGuy is another one of his alters.
 
X got hot at the right time and rattled off several wins in a row. You say that it is not a dig at X but it seems like it to me since you are diminishing their accomplishments in the playoffs. Most Elder fans did not like it when Cardsfan recently said that it took Elder's best team in ten years to beat Colerain's worst team in ten years. That comment seemed to downplay Elder's accomplishments this year.

I think it was more of a dig at the Elder fans who have chanted "GCL" every time Colerain loses to X or Lasalle over the past decade like a mid-level SEC school. And don't think this is the best Elder team of the decade just the best Elder team of the decade to have things go right for them in playoffs, which is what you need to win a state title. Just like that X team in '16 wasn't there best team since '07. Hardwork, coaching, and talent don't always win the title alone, you have to have things go your way too. A great bounce on an onside kick, Sycamore's inability to defend a 2 TD lead, the Iggy QB tripping when he had an open TD, you and your opponents luck with injuries, how your strengths and weakness align with your opponents, all of these factors supercede talent sometimes. More times than not in DI the best team or at least the most talented team doesn't win the title.
 
It would be interesting to run a "ACC/Big Ten Challenge" type of exchange with another state (I know it's not possible). I think Ohio would come out at least even with an apples-to-apples set of match ups with any state in country. However, having spring football would provide an enormous advantage for the same reason a bowl game means so much to college programs - more time on the fundamentals.

I think the talent - everywhere - is slowly concentrating to a relatively limited number of private schools and toward large public districts in which many families can afford camps and specialized training if they have a child that shows athletic promise. Once you're on the outside of that equation, it's tough to get back in.
 
Great thread with lots a good input.

I have been following Ohio HS football for a long time now and I can tell you it certainly appears that the talent and elite teams have dropped off some but much like many things there are many aspects to this.

From the 1916 (Toledo Scott) through 1961 (Massillon Washington) Ohio was a player on the national scene when it came to HS football. There are several polls that have ranked HS football from 1910 going forward (some have gone, new ones have appeared). From 1961 to 1976 (Moeller) Ohio did not have a national poll champion. In the late 1970's and 1980's Moeller dominated the national scene winning some form of a national poll championship in 76', 77', 79', 80', and 82'. In 89', 93', and 95' Ignatius carried that banner and was ranked tops nationally followed by McKinley in 97'. The only Ohio team to be tabbed as a national poll champ since would be the 2007 St. Xavier team. You can argue that these polls are meaningless but they carry weight on what Ohio was thought of on a national level. I'd also argue Colerain of 2004 should be listed but regardless it is 2019 and Ohio has not had a top ranked team in 12 years and only one in 22 years. From 1976 to 1997, a 21 year stretch, Ohio had 9 national poll champs. Not to mention that in that time-frame Ohio would routinely have multiple teams ranked in the national polls whereas today, as a state, we are lucky to have one.

With all this said I would put Ohio's HS hey-day as being from 1976 to roughly 2004. Not only did Ohio dominate on the national level team wise, but the state also produced some of the nations top talent (3 Heisman trophy winners). Not only top talent but also depth in talent routinley peppering DI college rosters.

The #1 reason IMO would be population decline.

Cleveland

5003


Cincinnati

5004


Everyone understands Ohio's troubles in terms of population recently and simply using Ohio's two traditional metro cities you see the population decline. Columbus would be the lone exception but Toledo, Dayton, Akron, Youngstown, and Lima all look similar in terms of decline. From 1960 to 1980 much of the population lost was to the suburbs. From 1980 to today much of that brain drain was to other states. Look at what has happened to Youngstown or even my favorite poster child for Ohio manufacturing decline Fostoria, a city which not long ago (1991 & 1996) won two DII state championships. Fostoria has a long history of football prowess not only with the public school but also the Catholic school St. Wendelin. Fast forward to today and Fostoria is a shell of its former self. The Redmen are now a DV school and St. Wendelin has shut its doors.

Further, my freshman year at one of the local Catholic powers we had 80 kids on the freshman squad. I'll never forget that we had a couple kids who never saw action all year (and their parents did not bi$tch - different times). Today that same school has 25-30 and the demographics are far different. A good chunk of my HS friends and teammates are raising their kids in places like Dallas, Kansas City, Atlanta area, Phoenix, etc...

Other reasons (previously mentioned) would be school size and specialization schools.

As already mentioned Allen Texas has roughly 6,500 students. I have a friend in the district and these school districts keep their high schools this big for one reason: football. However, specialization and recruiting have changed the landscape. IMG was essentially created to be a super prep recruiting football team in 2010. Others have followed suite. Today you have "all-star" 7 on 7 teams and I have even begun to see "all-star premier elite" pee-wee and jr. high teams start to pop up. So the same BS that bottlenecked baseball talent is happening in football.

With all of this said, keep in mind we all get fixated on BIG. Yes, Ohio does not have a USAToday poll champ or is no longer sending the elite talent to college like it once did but football in Ohio is still a really big deal. Our body of work across the board and through the smaller school divisions is as good as anyone else IMO. I beg anyone to go watch football in MI or IN. It is simply not the same. Even FL, which produces top talent year in and year out, does not have the following for HS football like Ohio.
 
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That trip in 2016. I can still see it. Right in front of me.
I audibly groaned when I saw the QB recognize the hole, was sure he was in. X would have had their chance to respond, but would have been a lot tougher. And that reverse call in the second OT still makes zero sense
 
I think it was more of a dig at the Elder fans who have chanted "GCL" every time Colerain loses to X or Lasalle over the past decade like a mid-level SEC school. And don't think this is the best Elder team of the decade just the best Elder team of the decade to have things go right for them in playoffs, which is what you need to win a state title. Just like that X team in '16 wasn't there best team since '07. Hardwork, coaching, and talent don't always win the title alone, you have to have things go your way too. A great bounce on an onside kick, Sycamore's inability to defend a 2 TD lead, the Iggy QB tripping when he had an open TD, you and your opponents luck with injuries, how your strengths and weakness align with your opponents, all of these factors supercede talent sometimes. More times than not in DI the best team or at least the most talented team doesn't win the title.
This is Elder’s best team since 2010, I can say that without hesitation.
 
True.

I want Ignatius to drop Dematha from the schedule after this season's drubbing.

As a general rule, it’s best to avoid teams in states with a Public/Private split. The Private schools have free reign to recruit as much as they want. And what’s really bad in CA is the transfer situation. It’s like Free Agency every offseason with kids transferring.

 
Yes population is down. Is the amount of talent across the state down because of it, yes. However if some of the districts we are talking about that have 2,3, 4 or 5 high schools were 1 system like in Texas. Those teams would be loaded and have more talent even with population decline than they ever had in the 80s, 90s or early 2000s. If you just took the 3 largest school systems in Massillon and combine them, every position is improved and the line play on both sides of the ball becomes a serious force. The defensive line rotation, yes I said rotation combined with improved athletes in the back end of the defense is no joke.

Why has Hoban been so dominate. I will tell you why. Their line players allows the athletes in the back end and backfield to have success!!!! You combine these public schools to have 2000 boys in hot bed areas look out. I know what I saw out of Avon last week. You give that coach Avon, Avon Lakes players and another 500 boys to choose from on top of it that is one bad team!!!

The advantage the private system has provided over the past 30 years is simple. They accumulate trench players in comparison to the public system. Football is won or lost in the trenches that reality has not changed in 100 years! You control the line of scrimmage you win! Hoban's line is a top 3 D1 school line with above average running backs who get the luxury of coasting to space unchallenged. The opposing D2 or D3 team's athletes have no chance to even get started, they have to throw everyone at the line scrimmage including their 2 way players just to try and stop the run allowing for a 6-4 tight end to now be open down the seem. Meanwhile their avg QB picks his nose and wipes his keister, because of the time he has in the pocket. On Defense they suffocate the backfield with a massive front 7.

Put North Canton Hoovers QB in Mckinley's backfield, which now puts the McKinley QB who was pretty darn good in the slot along with every other Hoover player and additional 500 boys to choose from. OHHH MY LORD!
 
I do not care if Ohio football matches up with other states. I do like the fact we have lots of teams and that gives lots of students a chance to play. Most people do not have the talent to play their sport much beyond HS and the idea for taking 4 or 5 high school and making one big one does what to the number of players, Only 22 people can be on the field in a game at one time if you have one team ll play if you have four you have 44 playing. Being 5'9" and 165 Lbs and only I would guess a little faster than average. if there were only big super school my son would not have started played or been on the team let alone play in 30 varsity games. Two of those years going both ways on O and D and my did he have fun playing the game and as a father I had a great time watching him play to the best of his size and ability.
 
What is the purpose of high school football? If it's to build megateams to compete with Texas and Florida,then go ahead and dream about merging. If it's about giving hs students a chance to experience the game and teamwork, then let it be. I'd much rather have a kid play on a D-7 team in rural Ohio and go through Friday night excitement than to be a kid in Allen, Texas who doesn't even have a chance to try out because of the numbers in the school. You want to go the elite route, then start a football academy. Otherwise, leave Ohio football alone.
 
Pitt won national championships or close with a roster of only Pittsburgh kids,or within 50 miles.Population is alot of it.
 
Ohio football has fallen off some in my opinion but not as much as PA. Ohio football is considerably better than PA and I’d say 25-30 years ago the 2 were pretty even. There is just no depth in PA on really good teams and the # of elite (4/5 star recruits) has really declined. Recently beyond the top 15-20 recruits they aren’t really P5 caliber.
 
Some of the Ohio powers in Division 1 have struggled lately as Moeller had a terrible season this year and Ignatius who usually makes deep playoff runs was down this year. I did not hear much about Huber Heights Wayne this season and I think they did not make the playoffs this year either. There is still a lot of good football being played though in Ohio and the playoff games have been exciting.
 
I think it was more of a dig at the Elder fans who have chanted "GCL" every time Colerain loses to X or Lasalle over the past decade like a mid-level SEC school. And don't think this is the best Elder team of the decade just the best Elder team of the decade to have things go right for them in playoffs, which is what you need to win a state title. Just like that X team in '16 wasn't there best team since '07. Hardwork, coaching, and talent don't always win the title alone, you have to have things go your way too. A great bounce on an onside kick, Sycamore's inability to defend a 2 TD lead, the Iggy QB tripping when he had an open TD, you and your opponents luck with injuries, how your strengths and weakness align with your opponents, all of these factors supercede talent sometimes. More times than not in DI the best team or at least the most talented team doesn't win the title.

I agree with your post and as you said it takes hard work, talent, coaching, and some luck to win the state title. The best team or most talented does not always win is a true statement as well.
 
Ohio football has fallen off some in my opinion but not as much as PA. Ohio football is considerably better than PA and I’d say 25-30 years ago the 2 were pretty even. There is just no depth in PA on really good teams and the # of elite (4/5 star recruits) has really declined. Recently beyond the top 15-20 recruits they aren’t really P5 caliber.
Pa's population loss in the rural areas is staggering compared to Ohio. But PA has co-ops so the small schools usually have access to football even when they can't field their own team.

In Ohio, the big issue is that the top end just isn't there. But competitively from top to bottom I rank Ohio only behind Texas in terms of schools being able to be competitive within their classifications.

Fan support though... Ohio's aging and that's going to hurt fans in stands. While Texas puts a premium on Friday night lights and young families still make up a huge number of people going to games. Ohio is about 10-15 years behind PA in terms of losing in game fan support. It's a shame because high school football is such a great community and entertainment activity every fall. And it just gets washed out by everything else available to occupy our time in today's age.
 
I audibly groaned when I saw the QB recognize the hole, was sure he was in. X would have had their chance to respond, but would have been a lot tougher. And that reverse call in the second OT still makes zero sense
They ran the same reverse in the Eds game this year, and shockingly, it failed miserably. Both Wrs were hurt on the play to make things that much more awesome.

Then there was the pitch to a RB who had NOT carried the ball that I can recall all season. He fumbled, X recovered for a TD.
 
After thinking about this some, I would like to see a little more information that proves talent in Ohio is down. DI college football players is one element. Pro football players is another. Anyone have details on the number of draft picks in the NFL over the last 5 years that were from Ohio?

Quick search found this from 2017 draft:
No. 2 Chicago – Mitchell Trubisky, QB – North Carolina – Mentor (Ohio)
No. 11 New Orleans – Marshon Lattimore, CB – Ohio State – Glenville (Ohio)
No. 24 Oakland – Gareon Conley, CB – Ohio State – Massillon (Ohio)
No. 28 Dallas – Atlanta – Taco Charlton, DE – Michigan – Pickerington Central (Ohio)

IMO, the best QBs I've seen in HS in Ohio over the last 20 years were Trubisky and Burrow. I was disappointed Trubisky never went to Ohio State and disappointed Burrow never got the starting job. Both made their names at other Universities. One is now a starting QB in the NFL and the other soon will be. This is a small sample size but shows that there has been some talent in Ohio the last decade.

Another factor is Urban Meyer. He was a great recruiter that found players anywhere in the country. For most Ohioans, having success at Ohio State means that you were a great player. Fewer Ohio kids are playing at Ohio State over the last decade not so much because they didn't have talent, rather, the coach was recruiting the very best players from every corner of the country.

I'm not quite ready to say that Ohio football is on the decline versus the rest of the country.
 
Ohio had 13 players drafted in 2019:

T George Asafo-Adjei New York Giants (7) Kentucky Lakota West (West Chester)
DB Marquise Blair Seattle (2) Utah Wooster
WR Parris Campbell Indianapolis (2) Ohio State St. Vincent-St. Mary (Akron)
DE John Cominsky Atlanta (4) Charleston (West Virginia) Barberton
G Michael Deiter Miami (3) Wisconsin Genoa
DB Mike Edwards Tampa Bay (3) Kentucky Winton Woods (Cincinnati)
WR Andy Isabella Arizona (2) Massachusetts Mayfield (Cleveland)
DT Dre’Mont Jones Denver (3) Ohio State St. Ignatius (Cleveland)
DB Justin Layne Pittsburgh (3) Michigan State Benedictine (Cleveland)
LB David Long Tennessee (6) West Virginia Winton Woods (Cleveland)
G Wes Martin Washington (4) Indiana Milton Union (West Milton)
RB David Montgomery Chicago (3) Iowa State Mount Healthy (Cincinnati)
RB Benny Snell Pittsburgh (4) Kentucky Westerville Central (Westerville)

This tied for 4th with the state of Georgia. Only Florida, Texas, and California were ahead of Ohio.
 
I do not care if Ohio football matches up with other states. I do like the fact we have lots of teams and that gives lots of students a chance to play.

You hit the nail square...

Ohio has a lot of small schools with football teams. This is a good thing. Way more kids get to play who would probably not even try in a school of 3000+ boys.

I rarely goto a D1 Ohio football games. Is all mostly D5 or lower. As our population gets smaller some schools are going to have to do something about the low numbers of students who want to play football.
 
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