What is the prevailing opinion regarding the emphasis of these two platforms. I think the DA is selling the WNST as the goal while the ECNL is a college platform. If you ask most local soccer players and their parents most would agree the end game is a college scholarship to good 'ol State U. What say you all?
DA vs ECNL What's the point?
- Thread starter Bucknut3
- Start date
I say, another thread was completely unnecessary.
Hoosier Parent
Member
Heh
If you say so. Looking at these threads it may be a common theme. Just want to see who plays along. You can go back to your charts now!
buckshooter5
Active member
:clap::clap::clap::clap:
buckshooter5
Active member
TFA has always allowed the parents to ruin teams. Why it is fun watching the TFA, those that make it, girls play at the next level, or try to. Studs become duds, but Mum and Dad are happy because Lil Mia got her books paid for.
Fact of the matter is this
When the ECNL was formed it started with top 75 clubs, those clubs dominated the Womens National championships in the USSF Before that !
Go look at the History of National championships in each age group before the ECNL started all those clubs formed the ECNL !
SO they did all of these National League teams a huge favor , because before that they could NOT compete or would not even been considered to be an upper tier team.
Guess what?
Those same clubs that dominated the US National Championships are still here they are in the ECNL , so what in your wildest dreams do you think the National League teams could truly compete with the Monsters of the ECNL ?
I think they forgot how bad the beat down was before they stopped playing them ?
When the ECNL was formed it started with top 75 clubs, those clubs dominated the Womens National championships in the USSF Before that !
Go look at the History of National championships in each age group before the ECNL started all those clubs formed the ECNL !
SO they did all of these National League teams a huge favor , because before that they could NOT compete or would not even been considered to be an upper tier team.
Guess what?
Those same clubs that dominated the US National Championships are still here they are in the ECNL , so what in your wildest dreams do you think the National League teams could truly compete with the Monsters of the ECNL ?
I think they forgot how bad the beat down was before they stopped playing them ?
^^ This
CitrusCrunch
Member
Hoosier Parent
Member
I think some clubs like Michigan Hawks are gonna do both. It will be interesting to see how that goes.
That has gone both ways. There are some clubs that had initially planned to do both that are now only doing the GDA. I'm too lazy to look and see what those clubs are but from memory I believe that they are Colorado Rush, SC del Sol, Sockers, Penn Fusion, Boca United, Weston, WFla Flames, FC Virginia, Eagles, Real SoCal, Sporting Blue Valley, Breakers/NEFC, and Charlotte Soccer Academy. Maybe Texas Rush? Some of the clubs I listed never intended to do both but, instead, left the ECNL for the GDA. As I said, the list is from memory so don't hold me to it. It I have time at some point I'll see if it's accurate.
The ECNL has picked up some new clubs for next year to fill in for the clubs that were lost. In some cases the new clubs are not at the level as those that were lost. Don't believe that these decisions and choices were devoid of politics when being made.
Hoosier Parent
Member
I'm guessing the quality of the clubs can be relative as the ECNLvsDA will change the trajectory of younger players moving to bigger clubs depending on their preference.
Indy Fire (Who largely replaced Carmel) used ECNL to surpass FC Pride by being a destination club for players coming from a distance. FC Pride is already seeing an (impending) influx of players that likely would have gone to Fire.
Anecdotally speaking of course.
onehotbobo
Member
If a kid plays ECNL with intentions of playing college she can still use the PDP path to make it to the ID2 Training Camp via PDP. And the DA system provides a path for college exposure so there's flexibility within the systems to do either correct?
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The answer is yes. But IF things evolve the way the boys DA program did, (not an unreasonable assumption...) then ID2 will become a scouting tool for the DA system. Players found there will be encouraged and recruited by DA Clubs. That is the way it is on the boys side today, but they are 10 years into the program.
Lots of people expect immediate results from major organizational changes. This expectation isn't realistic in any area of our lives.
That said... Check out the U17s and the U20s. They are greatly improved. Above that... yeah not so much.
It's unrealistic to expect that there should be significant improvement to the MNT because of the fact that we now have a Boys DA.
There are a number of issues with the US Men's program when compared to the world leaders of the sport, and a DA program alone can't fix them. Training at the young ages, while getting better, lags behind the soccer dominate nations. Also, the dominate nations have soccer as the primary sport for young males to focus on whereas the US has other more popular sports; which siphons off talent and focus from soccer.
Moreover, the professional clubs handle the development for the truly elite players in the soccer dominate countries via their own youth academies. MLS clubs are just starting to get into this.
So, a DA is an important component, but there needs to be other vehicles as well
belied dat
Active member
This discussion comes up quite regularly in several circles I deal with. I think it's been discussed numerous times on here too.
It's rather "unfair" to attribute much of the DA and USMNT together. The DA has been around for 10 years no (2007). For many of its first years, it only existed with U18, U17, and U16 age groups. Every so often it expands. Now, it finally gets to U12 and U13. "Only" 149 clubs exist in the WHOLE DA system for boys. I don't want to get into breakdown in ages and numbers per age group.
But, I hope we all can certainly agree that from age 4 (roughly) to 11 there is a massive amount of development to happen. Take into account that the DA averages 3 teams per state TOTAL, we certainly cannot get enough of a player pool from the DA system alone.
So, for all the good AND bad the DA may be...there's still tons of kids, development, and opportunity missed. Period.
Looks like some ECNL teams took a beating at Jefferson Cup. CUP 03 won 4-0 against GSA ECNL. I guess maybe the ECNL is not all that or maybe they just dont have the best clubs / teams in the ECNL anymore??
Looking back at the 2016 Jefferson Cup out of 23 flights U15 to U18- 5 ECNL teams were in the top spot of their flights while non-ECNL teams held 18 top spots. I can see why non-ECNL team have forgotten about any beat downs that happened many moons ago.
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Hoosier Parent
Member
I think a better comparison will be this weekend (U15-U19). Cup 01 and TFA 01 will match up against some decent ECNL teams. I just don't think ECNL teams are as strong at that age as upper ages as they become regional destination clubs.
Being ECNL doesn't automatically guarantee that a team is better, but overall I don't think the National League would compete with upper teams. Give CUP it's due. They're at the top of the National league in just about every girls division.
A parent in NorCal last week wrote a short piece in comparing the GDA with the ECNL and high school soccer:
Comparing Girls’ Development Academy with ECNL and High School Soccer
There's really not much earth shattering in what he writes. I agree with a lot of what he writes and disagree with some as well. His main points, for those that don't want to take a few minutes to read it:
GDA = Primarily Player Development – no financial incentives, just longer-term player development owned and organized by our national soccer federation. Strong centralized control over all aspects, including coaching standards, curriculum, training and game schedule.
ECNL = Primarily Business – a league for our pay-to-play clubs to compete against each other. Need to ‘win’ to keep and attract paying parents with talented girls. Clubs and coaches retain, for all practical intents and purposes, full independence.
High School Soccer = Primarily Social – girls enjoy playing with school friends for their school and get local peer group recognition. Focus is on ‘winning’ with the available pool of players at the school, not player development. Risk of injury is high.
The author contends that the current ECNL and college path simply doesn’t work if world-class player development is the goal. I contend that world-class player development is the goal of a very small fraction of those that play.
The author sites a quote from April Heinrichs who often do not agree with but do agree with here:
“When people say the gap is closing, I would say the gap has closed and we’re falling behind in these areas.” – April Heinrichs in NYT interview, June 2015
Comparing Girls’ Development Academy with ECNL and High School Soccer
There's really not much earth shattering in what he writes. I agree with a lot of what he writes and disagree with some as well. His main points, for those that don't want to take a few minutes to read it:
GDA = Primarily Player Development – no financial incentives, just longer-term player development owned and organized by our national soccer federation. Strong centralized control over all aspects, including coaching standards, curriculum, training and game schedule.
ECNL = Primarily Business – a league for our pay-to-play clubs to compete against each other. Need to ‘win’ to keep and attract paying parents with talented girls. Clubs and coaches retain, for all practical intents and purposes, full independence.
High School Soccer = Primarily Social – girls enjoy playing with school friends for their school and get local peer group recognition. Focus is on ‘winning’ with the available pool of players at the school, not player development. Risk of injury is high.
The author contends that the current ECNL and college path simply doesn’t work if world-class player development is the goal. I contend that world-class player development is the goal of a very small fraction of those that play.
The author sites a quote from April Heinrichs who often do not agree with but do agree with here:
“When people say the gap is closing, I would say the gap has closed and we’re falling behind in these areas.” – April Heinrichs in NYT interview, June 2015
Thanks for sharing. Excellent piece. There's another quote that struck me:
"For societal reasons and because of the deeply embedded male soccer culture in leading soccer nations, female players only recently started playing soccer in larger numbers there. And those countries are now bringing their deep expertise in player development from the men’s side to their female players."
Or you can look back to last summer when our 16's and especially 13's went to Frisco and got pounded by Southern and Western ECNL clubs who are able to participate in their State games. Both teams were dominating until that point. Well the 16's lost to FC Virginia ECNL last winter, who lost to OE ECNL prior to Frisco hell week but whatever.
I will never understand why the animus between clubs or leagues, seriously it's so damn petty.
And the DA has no financial incentives? hahaha, Yeah...OK....At that point anything that parent has to say afterward is bunk and hyperbole. Seriously, that's just a joke from a blinded father.
lovesallsports
Member
Well at least they were able to make it to that stage. The OE team at the 13 level wouldn't have made it out of State CUP. I don't have a problem with the ECNL. Let's be honest they do have some really good teams. But you can't discredit teams that are not ECNL just because they are not ECNL. That CUP team has beaten ECNL teams of all levels. Some of the CUP teams weaknesses were exposed during Nationals last year but the new team this year is even stronger than last year.
To me it is just sad that the ECNL would not let CUP into the ECNL because the guys that run OE know that it would mean the end of OE in Cincinnati so they have banned a club that deserves to be in it due to politics and being afraid of the competition. CUP has proven it is a powerhouse in all levels and would be accepted into the ECNL if they were in any city other than Cincinnati. So who is afraid now?
To me it is just sad that the ECNL would not let CUP into the ECNL because the guys that run OE know that it would mean the end of OE in Cincinnati so they have banned a club that deserves to be in it due to politics and being afraid of the competition. CUP has proven it is a powerhouse in all levels and would be accepted into the ECNL if they were in any city other than Cincinnati. So who is afraid now?
Because you dont know the history from the beginning maybe you need to look up 50cents old posts or ask Rohbino about the how it all started that way you cant make an accusation that I biased. Go ahead ask Roh the questionable history or search for 50cents post about it. I am sure you will enjoy it.
You also mentioned 2 age groups only I detailed a lot more than that.
cincysports4
Well-known member
It's a business.. Would you let your direct competition in on the pie? No...
Unfortunately that's what it is, a business. They let them in, now what differentiates OE from everyone else? Nothing then... They have exclusive rights to the ECNL.. As long as they have that going for them, they'll continue to be able to be successful.
buckshooter5
Active member
DO you think for one minute that CUP would let OE in if the tables were turned ?
NO freaking Way !
NO freaking Way !