$5.3M awarded to DuBose Family

 
Excessive. This is another example of the government not being good stewards of other people's money. If it was coming out of their own pockets, there would be more fight and more negotiation.
 
Why? Why award cash lottery prior to the court decision? There would be plenty of time to erect a monument and give free education to all 12 kids after we learn if the officer is actually guilty! I still believe he was shot due to inability or unwillingness to follow simple instructions.
 
D4fan said:
Why? Why award cash lottery prior to the court decision? There would be plenty of time to erect a monument and give free education to all 12 kids after we learn if the officer is actually guilty! I still believe he was shot due to inability or unwillingness to follow simple instructions.
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Because what happens in the court decision has nothing to do with this settlement.
 
I haven't read much about this case other than what is on here and saw the video. The settlement seems a bit excessive but necessary for his wife and 12 children. Really surprised by him having that many children at such a young age. Impressed that his wife was able to deliver so many children in such a short period of time. It's good to see they are all going to get an education. Probably very difficult for them to replace their Father's income, so this should help out.
 
Yappi said:
I haven't read much about this case other than what is on here and saw the video. The settlement seems a bit excessive but necessary for his wife and 12 children. Really surprised by him having that many children at such a young age. Impressed that his wife was able to deliver so many children in such a short period of time. It's good to see they are all going to get an education. Probably very difficult for them to replace their Father's income, so this should help out.
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Wrongful death settlements are primarily to replace the lost net earnings of the person killed. For some reason, I have a hard time believing that Mr. DuBose would have been expected to net close to $5 million over the rest of his life.

There may also be an amount specified for a wife or children that is to compensate for the lost companionship and/or guidance that they have lost. I know we are talking about 12 children (though I thought I had read somewhere that he had 13 children :shrug:), but that amount still seems high. Was he particularly close to his children?

Finally, I can't help but wonder about whether his children might NOT WANT to go to UC, I mean seeing as how they blame the University for DuBose's death. Pretty sure I would not want to attend an institution that I blamed for my father's death.
 
TylerDurden said:
Because what happens in the court decision has nothing to do with this settlement.
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I disagree. I know they are separate actions and have different standards of proof and everything, but I have to believe that if a "Guilty" verdict on the murder charge would have been handed down before this settlement were reached, that it certainly would have affected the settlement. If Ray Tensing were found guilty of murder in the shooting death of Sam DuBose, I would expect a pretty high settlement amount to be paid by UC in the civil case - something in the neighborhood of $4-5 million.

On the other hand, if Tensing were found "Not Guilty" of even the voluntary manslaughter charges, then I would expect a much lower settlement amount - probably around $1 million.

Of course, I am talking about settlement amounts (money paid to make the lawsuit go away before it gets to a jury). If there were a jury award, and the school were found liable, then I would expect the award to be closer to the $4-5 million amount I mentioned earlier, possibly even a little higher.
 
Yappi said:
I haven't read much about this case other than what is on here and saw the video. The settlement seems a bit excessive but necessary for his wife and 12 children. Really surprised by him having that many children at such a young age. Impressed that his wife was able to deliver so many children in such a short period of time. It's good to see they are all going to get an education. Probably very difficult for them to replace their Father's income, so this should help out.
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I'm 99.9% sure every word of this post is a joke, right?
 
the_big_toe said:
I disagree. I know they are separate actions and have different standards of proof and everything, but I have to believe that if a "Guilty" verdict on the murder charge would have been handed down before this settlement were reached, that it certainly would have affected the settlement. If Ray Tensing were found guilty of murder in the shooting death of Sam DuBose, I would expect a pretty high settlement amount to be paid by UC in the civil case - something in the neighborhood of $4-5 million.

On the other hand, if Tensing were found "Not Guilty" of even the voluntary manslaughter charges, then I would expect a much lower settlement amount - probably around $1 million.

Of course, I am talking about settlement amounts (money paid to make the lawsuit go away before it gets to a jury). If there were a jury award, and the school were found liable, then I would expect the award to be closer to the $4-5 million amount I mentioned earlier, possibly even a little higher.
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Kelly Thomas's father got 5 million in his settlement after the 2 cops charged in his murder were found not guilty.
Having watched the video, I think UC knew they weren't getting off easy.
 
the_big_toe said:
Wrongful death settlements are primarily to replace the lost net earnings of the person killed. For some reason, I have a hard time believing that Mr. DuBose would have been expected to net close to $5 million over the rest of his life.

There may also be an amount specified for a wife or children that is to compensate for the lost companionship and/or guidance that they have lost. I know we are talking about 12 children (though I thought I had read somewhere that he had 13 children :shrug:), but that amount still seems high. Was he particularly close to his children?

Finally, I can't help but wonder about whether his children might NOT WANT to go to UC, I mean seeing as how they blame the University for DuBose's death. Pretty sure I would not want to attend an institution that I blamed for my father's death.
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The children are not forced to attend the university but if you thought through tragedy that you might help make it a better place, wouldn't you keep it on your options? Besides which, it's not a bad university.

This was a "settlement," not a trial award. If there was chance the university would also be found negligent, doesn't that generally also incur penalties awarded in addition to the wrongful death award?

I think a case can me made that the University was a good steward of the public funds in this case. Tuition is value added, costs the university almost nothing. The 5 mill probably got them off easy relative to years of news articles dragging this up as the case wore on. The memorial is what boggles my mind a bit. I cannot figure the family's POV on this but I can see the university not making it a sticking point.

We had a student murdered up here some years ago by a campus cop. I believe there's a memorial somewhere but other than that, the tale is lost to the wind. I wonder if the family even visits. Who would want to annually visit the site of a loved one's murder?
 
Yappi said:
I haven't read much about this case other than what is on here and saw the video. The settlement seems a bit excessive but necessary for his wife and 12 children. Really surprised by him having that many children at such a young age. Impressed that his wife was able to deliver so many children in such a short period of time. It's good to see they are all going to get an education. Probably very difficult for them to replace their Father's income, so this should help out.
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From what's been published,$5.3 is more than he'd have made in several lifetimes.
 
eastisbest said:
.....I think a case can me made that the University was a good steward of the public funds in this case. Tuition is value added, costs the university almost nothing. The 5 mill probably got them off easy relative to years of news articles dragging this up as the case wore on. The memorial is what boggles my mind a bit. I cannot figure the family's POV on this but I can see the university not making it a sticking point.
....
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Free tuition would have been more than he'd have EVER been able to provide his kids, $5M is a payoff, they should have waited to see what happened in the trial, he didn't follow instructions, the cop NOT the University was 1--% negligent. You dangle 20 years salary as a settlement, not millions of dollars guaranteed.
 
So DuBose had 12 children, who by all accounts he was not supporting......he had dozens (around 70) arrests on his record. He was evidently a self-described local music producer of some kind. He disobeys a cop and gets shot - the cop was dead wrong, but DuBose was disobeying the cop.

He gets a memorial? I understand the payout, if not the amount, but a memorial?
He gets a memorial because he was wrongfully killed?


I raised almost that many kids, I did support them, have no crimimal record.....I, and three of my kids have multiple degrees from UC........I'm just betting that when I die there is no memorial on campus for me :laugh:
Not that I, or my children, would ever expect one.
 
Let me be the first to say dado6 definitely deserves a memorial if he gets wrongly executed. :) In all seriousness I applaud you as a father. And have NO IDEA wtf is up w/ this "memorial." For real? Has to be more to it.
 
MOUNT-UNION82 said:
All of it EXCESSIVE and the memorial ABSURD. It sounds more like they won the lottery and their dad proclaimed a hero.
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No offense, but kinda warped to consider such a tragedy as the joy of winning a lottery. I highly doubt his kids, or dado6's, or your own, would consider it as such. Maybe not.
 
TigerPaw said:
No offense, but kinda warped to consider such a tragedy as the joy of winning a lottery. I highly doubt his kids, or dado6's, or your own, would consider it as such. Maybe not.
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Clearly I was talking about the financial impact, not the emotional one. And no offense, you're just being trying to be offensive...no maybe's about it.
 
MOUNT-UNION82 said:
Clearly I was talking about the financial impact, not the emotional one. And no offense, you're just being trying to be offensive...no maybe's about it.
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Wasn't clear at all. It read to me also as if you're saying all they see in this is a payday. Fair enough you didn't mean it that way.
 
eastisbest said:
Wasn't clear at all. It read to me also as if you're saying all they see in this is a payday. Fair enough you didn't mean it that way.
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He had little to any contact with any of his kids, so it's not an unreasonable assumption.
 
TigerPaw said:
No offense, but kinda warped to consider such a tragedy as the joy of winning a lottery. I highly doubt his kids, or dado6's, or your own, would consider it as such. Maybe not.
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I think you would agree with the "lottery" statement if you had been closely following this story.

A few months back they decided on the approximate amount of the award but then throw in multiple women with multiple children, and a grieving family of his own (mother/sister) and they could not decide who should get the money.

His life and family is a social disaster, and now the good students of UC and taxpayers are paying for his irresponsibility many times over.

I agree it is a twisted view, but twisted situation creates twisted view.the good news is there should be an influx of money spent on the mean streets of Cincinnati in the near future, at least until his family and friends and girlfriends run out of their new found treasure. Congrats to his children on being in the right place at the right time. The irony is his family is much better off with him dead than alive.
 
D4fan said:
I think you would agree with the "lottery" statement if you had been closely following this story.

A few months back they decided on the approximate amount of the award but then throw in multiple women with multiple children, and a grieving family of his own (mother/sister) and they could not decide who should get the money.

His life and family is a social disaster, and now the good students of UC and taxpayers are paying for his irresponsibility many times over.

I agree it is a twisted view, but twisted situation creates twisted view.the good news is there should be an influx of money spent on the mean streets of Cincinnati in the near future, at least until his family and friends and girlfriends run out of their new found treasure. Congrats to his children on being in the right place at the right time. The irony is his family is much better off with him dead than alive.
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I may be mistaken, but I believe there's an additional person who acted irresponsibly and as a result have now cost the good students at UC and the taxpayers.
 
TigerPaw said:
No offense, but kinda warped to consider such a tragedy as the joy of winning a lottery. I highly doubt his kids, or dado6's, or your own, would consider it as such. Maybe not.
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Probably not, but what would you call it? Someone with limited earning potential, actually creates a situation, escalates the situation, and didn't follow directions and then did something incredibly stupid to get himself killed....... and an institution with access to other peoples money just forks it over to the survivors? It's an unexpected windfall from an unexpected source, it's not like DuBose was going to provide anything near that for his kids.
 
TylerDurden said:
I may be mistaken, but I believe there's an additional person who acted irresponsibly and as a result have now cost the good students at UC and the taxpayers.
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Yes, some people bring out the worst in others!

A very young, inexperienced officer was no match for such a seasoned derelict.

Now if Ray does not get the jury to comprehend how he acted in fear for his life, the tax payer may also get to pay for his residence in the pen for many years.

We can only hope the jury will act responsibly and find him not guilty. Can help stop the financial and emotional harm with a little common sense.
 
SWMCinci said:
Free tuition would have been more than he'd have EVER been able to provide his kids, $5M is a payoff, they should have waited to see what happened in the trial, he didn't follow instructions, the cop NOT the University was 1--% negligent. You dangle 20 years salary as a settlement, not millions of dollars guaranteed.
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I think most of these things end in "pay-off" to avoid that jury opinion and the lawyer fees. The university was going to lost a lot more than this, win or lose probably. And, I think they honestly felt regardless what DuBose did, it shouldn't have ended the way it did.

We've had this discussion about training before. If the cop didn't follow even one procedure correctly, they were going to lose. If even the procedures or the training of the procedures could be successfully attacked, they were going to lose.

The guy wasn't a danger as in suspected of violence or something like that. Cops best bet probably was to realize there was nothing to solve at that time, back off, take the info and get the warrant?
 
eastisbest said:
I think most of these things end in "pay-off" to avoid that jury opinion and the lawyer fees. The university was going to lost a lot more than this, win or lose probably. And, I think they honestly felt regardless what DuBose did, it shouldn't have ended the way it did.

We've had this discussion about training before. If the cop didn't follow even one procedure correctly, they were going to lose. If even the procedures or the training of the procedures could be successfully attacked, they were going to lose.

The guy wasn't a danger as in suspected of violence or something like that. Cops best bet probably was to realize there was nothing to solve at that time, back off, take the info and get the warrant?
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Or.......maybe the perp should have not even been there as to the 70 incidents on his police record, 12 children, not suporting them..... anywho let's erect a statue to this dude, give his kids a free education, make his baby mamas wealthy what else can we do?
 
zeeman said:
Or.......maybe the perp should have not even been there as to the 70 incidents on his police record, 12 children, not suporting them..... anywho let's erect a statue to this dude, give his kids a free education, make his baby mamas wealthy what else can we do?
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Should not have even been there? I don't follow.

The rest doesn't seem to have anything to do with anything. None of that leads to murder. Law may still decide blame for those things, the statue, the memorial... belong on the cop. All the university can do is erect the memorial. If the family's lawyer wasn't looking that far ahead, they might not have put anything in there about maintaining the memorial.

If law does decide this cop committed murder, regardless who he murdered, maybe a little remembrance of that isn't the worst thing. Though I agree, seems like a very bizarre request.
 
eastisbest said:
Should not have even been there? I don't follow.

The rest doesn't seem to have anything to do with anything. None of that leads to murder. Law may still decide blame for those things, the statue, the memorial... belong on the cop. All the university can do is erect the memorial. If the family's lawyer wasn't looking that far ahead, they might not have put anything in there about maintaining the memorial.

If law does decide this cop committed murder, regardless who he murdered, maybe a little remembrance of that isn't the worst thing. Though I agree, seems like a very bizarre request.
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Well gee East maybe after being charged let's say #39 we as a society should have locked him up for life? Nah, let's let him commit 31 more crimes, impregnate another seven times and on and on. Point, he was a POS and his life has affected many many in a negative way. So lets remember him as he was, the memorial should be shaped as a pile of shyte.
 
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